Where problems start... (video)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nikki

A foul in the first play on black...calling this and a quick talking to about the extra activity probably prevents the next situation.
But...In light of no call there the biggest problem is that the lead doesn't rotate at the other end. If he rotates this play is right in front of him and maybe he gets the first foul (or the second or third). Too many times in this area officials don't want to rotate "until the ball settles lower than the free throw line".

Full disclosure: I asked JMF to post this video for me, the visitors actually won the game by 17...The penalties handed out were a double foul on black 11 and the white player that goes down. Then double technicals for the shoving after the play.

If the C is "on ball" the L should be closing down, looking to rotate, and then doing so. I agree with you - I don't get why some officials don't rotate more frequently or why they hesitate rather than just *going*.

[APG]

In the 2nd play, it appears the lead is already looking across the lane. If your eyes are there for that long, you might as well go over and rotate.

As to the C, he's WAY too high on the play. There's no need for him to be above the FT line extended on this play as he would have had an open look from that position. He also wouldn't have taken himself away from the play at hand and may have been able to help get the first or second foul...

I'm also surprised at the nonchalantness displayed by the lead and center after the player gets tossed to the floor.

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by rich

if the c is "on ball" the l should be closing down, looking to rotate, and then doing so. I agree with you - i don't get why some officials don't rotate more frequently or why they hesitate rather than just *going*.

+1

Originally Posted by apg

in the 2nd play, it appears the lead is already looking across the lane. If your eyes are there for that long, you might as well go over and rotate.

As to the c, he's way too high on the play. There's no need for him to be above the ft line extended on this play as he would have had an open look from that position. He also wouldn't have taken himself away from the play at hand and may have been able to help get the first or second foul...

I'm also surprised at the nonchalantness displayed by the lead and center after the player gets tossed to the floor.

+1

[JetMetFan]

If I'm their supervisor/assignor my first question after seeing the video is, "You mean none of you saw Black #11 wrestling White #12 to the floor until White #12 hit the floor?

The conversation goes down hill from that point, starting with the no-call on the first play.

[Nevadaref]

I'm okay with just the OOB call on the first play. I can see deeming that incidental contact as both players go for the ball from about equal positions and neither is placed at a disadvantage.
However, one needs to then be alert and observe these two players (the ones who tangled on the first play) closely for the next few minutes.
In a 3-man crew, there shouldWorst thing that I saw this week was Dustin Hall screaming in Skip's ear with about 1:30 left and not getting penalized. Your crew was in the lockerroom preparing for the next contest. It wasn't a positive moment for the local officials group to tolerate that behavior. never be an unobserved competitive matchup.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm okay with just the OOB call on the first play. I can see deeming that incidental contact as both players go for the ball from about equal positions and neither is placard at a disadvantage.
However, one needs to then be alert and observe these two players (the ones who tangled on the first play) closely for the next few minutes.
In a 3-man crew, there should never be an unobserved competitive matchup.

My thoughts as well.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm okay with just the OOB call on the first play. I can see deeming that incidental contact as both players go for the ball from about equal positions and neither is placard at a disadvantage.
However, one needs to then be alert and observe these two players (the ones who tangled on the first play) closely for the next few minutes.
In a 3-man crew, there should never be an unobserved competitive matchup.

Yeah, it's easy to say there should've been something in retrospect, but absent the subsequent nonsense...it's just an OOB call.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm okay with just the OOB call on the first play. I can see deeming that incidental contact as both players go for the ball from about equal positions and neither is placed at a disadvantage.

Originally Posted by AremRed

My thoughts as well.

Originally Posted by Rich

Yeah, it's easy to say there should've been something in retrospect, but absent the subsequent nonsense...it's just an OOB call.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. After the ball is knocked away Black #11 reaches from behind - and through - White #12 and displaces him. It doesn't help matters that after the whistle White #12 swipes back at Black #11.

This isn't Monday Morning QBing on my part. When Nikki sent me the video I didn't know what I was looking for at first so I watched the entire raw clip (it was about five minutes long). When I saw Play #1 I thought that might have been the issue until I saw Play #2.