goal count or not?

[geoff.mayfield]

During first half, center official blows whistle calling technical foul against Team B's bench (profanity). When the whistle is blown, A1 is in the act of shooting, but the ball has not left his hand (layup). A1's layup is successful, but A1's release and goal are clearly after the whistle is blown.

Technical is called on B's Bench.

Does the goal count or not?

Yes I realize that the official calling the technical foul can wait until the shot/play ends before he blows the whistle, but he didn't

[BillyMac]

6.7 SITUATION D: A1 has started a try for a goal (is in the act of shooting),
the ball is not yet in flight when the official blows the whistle for B2 fouling A2.
A1's try is successful. RULING: Score the goal by A1. If Team A is in the bonus,
A2 will shoot free throws. If not, Team A will have a designated spot throw-in
nearest to where the foul occurred. COMMENT: The foul by the defense need not
be on the player in the act of shooting for continuous motion principles to apply.
(6-7 Exception c)

[MD Longhorn]

Billy, that situation is completely different - the OP is a technical foul.

[Welpe]

4-11-2

ART. 2

If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

Notice the generic phrase "an opponent fouls". They don't say who or what kind of foul.


And 6.7 COMMENT:

6.7 COMMENT:

If an opponent fouls after A1 has started to throw for goal, A1 is permitted to complete the customary arm movement; and, if A1 is pivoting or stepping when A1 or a teammate is fouled, A1 may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity, as long as A1 is still holding the ball. If A1 starts a dribble, the "continuous motion" immediately ends. These privileges are *granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs. The continuous-motion rule applies to a free-throw try as well as to a field-goal try or tap for goal. However, in a tap for goal, the motion does not begin until the ball is touched.

The "continuous-motion" provision does not apply to batting or tipping the ball during rebounding or a jump ball. In these cases, A1 is not considered as being in the act of trying or tapping for goal. If an opponent commits a foul during this type of action before the ball is in flight, the foul causes the ball to become dead immediately. In rebounding, the ball is not always batted. It might be caught in one hand and then thrown into the basket with a snap of the wrist or fingers or touched and tapped toward the basket. Under these circumstances, an official is justified in ruling that it is a try or tap instead of a bat. Continuous motion is of significance only when there is a personal or technical foul by B after the trying or tapping motion by A1 is started and before the ball is in flight. It includes any body, foot or arm motion normally used in trying for a field goal or free throw, and it ends when the ball leaves the hand(s) on the try or tap.

[MD Longhorn]

Ruling is the same, but this case is not what applies.

In any case - the official needs more awareness of the situation. Don't kill an impending possible score for a T on the opponent.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Billy, that situation is completely different - the OP is a technical foul.

Continuous motion is continuous motion, regardless of what type of foul is committed by the defense.

And...apart from the rule/case citations if you wave off that goal you're going to be calling a T on Team A's head coach as well.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Billy, that situation is completely different - the OP is a technical foul.

Certainly not he best caseplay for this situation.

It was just an example of continuous motion with a foul by the defense. The whistle doesn't cause the ball to become dead, even if the ball hasn't been released yet. Lots of important things to consider here: foul by the defense, act of shooting, and ball released after whistle.

And let's not forget that this play could be called differently at the end of the period, depending on when the horn sounds. But that's a story for another night. Good night moon.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

And...apart from the rule/case citations if you wave off that goal you're going to be calling a T on Team A's head coach as well.

Yep!

A favorite story from my chapter goes something like this.

B1 pokes the ball away from A1 and takes off down the court with it. Team A head coach takes exception to the no call and curses the official. The official tells the HC "I'll be back in just a second."

The new A1 drains the easy layup, official turns and whacks the offending HC.

[Da Official]

Lol! :d

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by geoff.mayfield

During first half, center official blows whistle calling technical foul against Team B's bench (profanity). When the whistle is blown, A1 is in the act of shooting, but the ball has not left his hand (layup). A1's layup is successful, but A1's release and goal are clearly after the whistle is blown.

Technical is called on B's Bench.

Does the goal count or not?

Yes I realize that the official calling the technical foul can wait until the shot/play ends before he blows the whistle, but he didn't

Had A1 begun his upward motion yet?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Welpe

4-11-2

ART. 2

If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

Notice the generic phrase "an opponent fouls". They don't say who or what kind of foul.


And 6.7 COMMENT:

6.7 COMMENT:

If an opponent fouls after A1 has started to throw for goal, A1 is permitted to complete the customary arm movement; and, if A1 is pivoting or stepping when A1 or a teammate is fouled, A1 may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity, as long as A1 is still holding the ball. If A1 starts a dribble, the "continuous motion" immediately ends. These privileges are *granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs. The continuous-motion rule applies to a free-throw try as well as to a field-goal try or tap for goal. However, in a tap for goal, the motion does not begin until the ball is touched.

The "continuous-motion" provision does not apply to batting or tipping the ball during rebounding or a jump ball. In these cases, A1 is not considered as being in the act of trying or tapping for goal. If an opponent commits a foul during this type of action before the ball is in flight, the foul causes the ball to become dead immediately. In rebounding, the ball is not always batted. It might be caught in one hand and then thrown into the basket with a snap of the wrist or fingers or touched and tapped toward the basket. Under these circumstances, an official is justified in ruling that it is a try or tap instead of a bat. Continuous motion is of significance only when there is a personal or technical foul by B after the trying or tapping motion by A1 is started and before the ball is in flight. It includes any body, foot or arm motion normally used in trying for a field goal or free throw, and it ends when the ball leaves the hand(s) on the try or tap.

You have cited 4-11-2, but did you look at 4-11-1?
"Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight."

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You have cited 4-11-2, but did you look at 4-11-1?
"Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight."

Right, but the line in 6.7 comment concerning personal/technical fouls on Team B would seem to trump what's in 4-11-1 in the case of the OP.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Had A1 begun his upward motion yet?

It is too early in the morning to get me started on "upward motion".

MTD, Sr.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Yep!

A favorite story from my chapter goes something like this.

B1 pokes the ball away from A1 and takes off down the court with it. Team A head coach takes exception to the no call and curses the official. The official tells the HC "I'll be back in just a second."

The new A1 drains the easy layup, official turns and whacks the offending HC.

Awesome.

We had a ref stop running up and down the court after 2-3 trips of complaining, and then sat beside the same HC. After 2 trips of no calls, the HC finally asked what he's doing and he replied "this is the best position to referee from, so I thought I should be here".

[CountTheBasket]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Awesome.

We had a ref stop running up and down the court after 2-3 trips of complaining, and then sat beside the same HC. After 2 trips of no calls, the HC finally asked what he's doing and he replied "this is the best position to referee from, so I thought I should be here".

I've seen something similar done in a baseball game with the HP umpire standing in the 3rd base coaches box telling the pitcher to start the inning.