The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 18, 2014, 03:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
goal count or not?

During first half, center official blows whistle calling technical foul against Team B's bench (profanity). When the whistle is blown, A1 is in the act of shooting, but the ball has not left his hand (layup). A1's layup is successful, but A1's release and goal are clearly after the whistle is blown.

Technical is called on B's Bench.

Does the goal count or not?

Yes I realize that the official calling the technical foul can wait until the shot/play ends before he blows the whistle, but he didn't
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 18, 2014, 04:00pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,024
Continuation ...

6.7 SITUATION D: A1 has started a try for a goal (is in the act of shooting),
the ball is not yet in flight when the official blows the whistle for B2 fouling A2.
A1's try is successful. RULING: Score the goal by A1. If Team A is in the bonus,
A2 will shoot free throws. If not, Team A will have a designated spot throw-in
nearest to where the foul occurred. COMMENT: The foul by the defense need not
be on the player in the act of shooting for continuous motion principles to apply.
(6-7 Exception c)
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 18, 2014, 04:09pm
Moderator M-800
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Billy, that situation is completely different - the OP is a technical foul.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 18, 2014, 04:13pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,981
4-11-2

ART. 2

If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

Notice the generic phrase "an opponent fouls". They don't say who or what kind of foul.


And 6.7 COMMENT:

6.7 COMMENT:

If an opponent fouls after A1 has started to throw for goal, A1 is permitted to complete the customary arm movement; and, if A1 is pivoting or stepping when A1 or a teammate is fouled, A1 may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity, as long as A1 is still holding the ball. If A1 starts a dribble, the "continuous motion" immediately ends. These privileges are *granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs. The continuous-motion rule applies to a free-throw try as well as to a field-goal try or tap for goal. However, in a tap for goal, the motion does not begin until the ball is touched.

The "continuous-motion" provision does not apply to batting or tipping the ball during rebounding or a jump ball. In these cases, A1 is not considered as being in the act of trying or tapping for goal. If an opponent commits a foul during this type of action before the ball is in flight, the foul causes the ball to become dead immediately. In rebounding, the ball is not always batted. It might be caught in one hand and then thrown into the basket with a snap of the wrist or fingers or touched and tapped toward the basket. Under these circumstances, an official is justified in ruling that it is a try or tap instead of a bat. Continuous motion is of significance only when there is a personal or technical foul by B after the trying or tapping motion by A1 is started and before the ball is in flight. It includes any body, foot or arm motion normally used in trying for a field goal or free throw, and it ends when the ball leaves the hand(s) on the try or tap.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 18, 2014, 04:19pm
Moderator M-800
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Ruling is the same, but this case is not what applies.

In any case - the official needs more awareness of the situation. Don't kill an impending possible score for a T on the opponent.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 18, 2014, 04:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Billy, that situation is completely different - the OP is a technical foul.
Continuous motion is continuous motion, regardless of what type of foul is committed by the defense.

And...apart from the rule/case citations if you wave off that goal you're going to be calling a T on Team A's head coach as well.
__________________
"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 18, 2014, 04:22pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,024
At Least That's What I Was Trying To Do ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Billy, that situation is completely different - the OP is a technical foul.
Certainly not he best caseplay for this situation.

It was just an example of continuous motion with a foul by the defense. The whistle doesn't cause the ball to become dead, even if the ball hasn't been released yet. Lots of important things to consider here: foul by the defense, act of shooting, and ball released after whistle.

And let's not forget that this play could be called differently at the end of the period, depending on when the horn sounds. But that's a story for another night. Good night moon.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 18, 2014 at 04:27pm.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 18, 2014, 04:23pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
And...apart from the rule/case citations if you wave off that goal you're going to be calling a T on Team A's head coach as well.
Yep!

A favorite story from my chapter goes something like this.

B1 pokes the ball away from A1 and takes off down the court with it. Team A head coach takes exception to the no call and curses the official. The official tells the HC "I'll be back in just a second."

The new A1 drains the easy layup, official turns and whacks the offending HC.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 18, 2014, 04:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 241
Lol! :d
__________________
Da Official
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 19, 2014, 12:27am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 12,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff.mayfield View Post
During first half, center official blows whistle calling technical foul against Team B's bench (profanity). When the whistle is blown, A1 is in the act of shooting, but the ball has not left his hand (layup). A1's layup is successful, but A1's release and goal are clearly after the whistle is blown.

Technical is called on B's Bench.

Does the goal count or not?

Yes I realize that the official calling the technical foul can wait until the shot/play ends before he blows the whistle, but he didn't
Had A1 begun his upward motion yet?
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 19, 2014, 07:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
4-11-2

ART. 2

If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

Notice the generic phrase "an opponent fouls". They don't say who or what kind of foul.


And 6.7 COMMENT:

6.7 COMMENT:

If an opponent fouls after A1 has started to throw for goal, A1 is permitted to complete the customary arm movement; and, if A1 is pivoting or stepping when A1 or a teammate is fouled, A1 may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity, as long as A1 is still holding the ball. If A1 starts a dribble, the "continuous motion" immediately ends. These privileges are *granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs. The continuous-motion rule applies to a free-throw try as well as to a field-goal try or tap for goal. However, in a tap for goal, the motion does not begin until the ball is touched.

The "continuous-motion" provision does not apply to batting or tipping the ball during rebounding or a jump ball. In these cases, A1 is not considered as being in the act of trying or tapping for goal. If an opponent commits a foul during this type of action before the ball is in flight, the foul causes the ball to become dead immediately. In rebounding, the ball is not always batted. It might be caught in one hand and then thrown into the basket with a snap of the wrist or fingers or touched and tapped toward the basket. Under these circumstances, an official is justified in ruling that it is a try or tap instead of a bat. Continuous motion is of significance only when there is a personal or technical foul by B after the trying or tapping motion by A1 is started and before the ball is in flight. It includes any body, foot or arm motion normally used in trying for a field goal or free throw, and it ends when the ball leaves the hand(s) on the try or tap.
You have cited 4-11-2, but did you look at 4-11-1?
"Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight."
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 19, 2014, 07:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
You have cited 4-11-2, but did you look at 4-11-1?
"Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight."
Right, but the line in 6.7 comment concerning personal/technical fouls on Team B would seem to trump what's in 4-11-1 in the case of the OP.
__________________
"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 19, 2014, 09:07am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,398
Send a message via AIM to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Send a message via MSN to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Send a message via Yahoo to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Had A1 begun his upward motion yet?

It is too early in the morning to get me started on "upward motion".

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 19, 2014, 09:23am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
Yep!

A favorite story from my chapter goes something like this.

B1 pokes the ball away from A1 and takes off down the court with it. Team A head coach takes exception to the no call and curses the official. The official tells the HC "I'll be back in just a second."

The new A1 drains the easy layup, official turns and whacks the offending HC.
Awesome.

We had a ref stop running up and down the court after 2-3 trips of complaining, and then sat beside the same HC. After 2 trips of no calls, the HC finally asked what he's doing and he replied "this is the best position to referee from, so I thought I should be here".
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
Awesome.

We had a ref stop running up and down the court after 2-3 trips of complaining, and then sat beside the same HC. After 2 trips of no calls, the HC finally asked what he's doing and he replied "this is the best position to referee from, so I thought I should be here".
I've seen something similar done in a baseball game with the HP umpire standing in the 3rd base coaches box telling the pitcher to start the inning.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
count the goal..... scat03 Basketball 11 Thu Nov 15, 2007 09:22pm
Field goal attempts that hit the cameras on field goal posts Barney72 Football 3 Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:21pm
Goal or No Goal - UConn Game GA ref Basketball 4 Tue Dec 23, 2003 09:19am
Count the goal? Suppref Basketball 11 Thu Mar 15, 2001 11:43am
does this goal count? beSmith Basketball 3 Mon Apr 17, 2000 04:12pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:14pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1