A question from a baseball umpire

[kylejt]

Why do basketball officials allow themselves to be hollered at by coaches? In a baseball game, most basketball coaches wouldn't last five minutes without an EJ. But in basketball they go off right in the officials ear, non-stop. Top of their lungs screaming stuff.

I've never understood that.

I do enjoy going to HS basketball games with some of my baseball umpire friends, and seeing how soon we'd EJ a coach. It's almost always very quickly. "Come on, Blue, don't let him yell at you like that", always get a bewildered look.

[Rich]

Why do baseball umpires allow coaches to delay the game and come onto the playing surface to question / argue calls? When they do that, my fellow basketball officials and I always remark how we'd call a technical foul and the umpires do nothing.

(BTW, I work both sports. Both sports are different.)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why do baseball umpires allow coaches to delay the game and come onto the playing surface to question / argue calls? When they do that, my fellow basketball officials and I always remark how we'd call a technical foul and the umpires do nothing.

(BTW, I work both sports. Both sports are different.)

This pretty much sums it up.

And I also have worked both sports in the past at the HS and college level. I no longer do baseball and probably will not be going back to that sport.

And I could add that football officials get yelled and hollered at in a way that neither baseball or basketball officials would tolerate.

Sports have different standards. That is never going to change.

Peace

[Rich1]

...and no coach will be allowed to go off in my ear, or far away from my ear for that matter. I will accept questions appropriately asked, I might tolerate objections that are reasonably & quickly expressed, and definetly will address comments or behavior that cross the line.

It is usually the less experienced refs who allow coaches to exceed reasonable limitations. I also believe it isup to more experienced refs to help out their partners in certain situations and to help them learn from them.

Now, I've always wondered why football coaches are allowed to curse and yell at the refs. See it all the time on tv and at games and think to myself that I wouldn't last long because i'd be throwng flags all the time.

A difference between baseball and basketball is the proximity of coaches (and fans) to the action. You might get yelled at more if the coaches could stand right next to you as you made your calls.

Originally Posted by kylejt

Why do basketball officials allow themselves to be hollered at by coaches?

I'm only speaking for myself. Here are a few reasons:

I know I should tech him, but don't have the balls.
I have the balls, but am not sure if I should tech him.
I made a bad call and want to give him some slack.
A tech is a big call and I don't want my assignor/the AD to not assign me games in the future.
I want the coach's vote for the state tournament (varies by state).
I was focused on something else and didn't realize he was yelling at me.
2 points and the ball is a big deal, especially at the end of a close game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I'm only speaking for myself. Here are a few reasons:

I know I should tech him, but don't have the balls.
I have the balls, but am not sure if I should tech him.
I made a bad call and want to give him some slack.
A tech is a big call and I don't want my assignor/the AD to not assign me games in the future.
I want the coach's vote for the state tournament (varies by state).
I was focused on something else and didn't realize he was yelling at me.
2 points and the ball is a big deal, especially at the end of a close game.

Or perhaps officials realize that a technical foul isn't the first tool to reach for in the toolkit. At least very rarely it is.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I'm only speaking for myself. Here are a few reasons:

I know I should tech him, but don't have the balls.
I have the balls, but am not sure if I should tech him.
I made a bad call and want to give him some slack.
A tech is a big call and I don't want my assignor/the AD to not assign me games in the future.
I want the coach's vote for the state tournament (varies by state).
I was focused on something else and didn't realize he was yelling at me.
2 points and the ball is a big deal, especially at the end of a close game.

Officials in basketball have a lot of ways to respond to a coach. For one they can be next to them and respond. Not everything is about not willing to do something, there are other tools in the shed.

BTW, not everyone has to worry about a coach deciding your playoff fate. That never comes into play in my thinking. Coaches can rate us, but they are one rating. Who cares what they think.

Originally Posted by Rich

Or perhaps officials realize that a technical foul isn't the first tool to reach for in the toolkit.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Officials in basketball have a lot of ways to respond to a coach.....there are other tools in the shed.

Correct about other tools in the toolkit/shed. OP mentioned baseball ejections so I responded with reasons we might not give a coach a tech.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

BTW, not everyone has to worry about a coach deciding your playoff fate.

Which is why I wrote "varies by state" :P

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Correct about other tools in the toolkit/shed. OP mentioned baseball ejections so I responded with reasons we might not give a coach a tech.

I did not eject many coaches as a baseball umpire. I did not need to. Some have the ability to get what you want without having to do the most extreme method. Even amongst baseball umpires, different umpires handled situations very differently.

Originally Posted by AremRed

Which is why I wrote "varies by state" :P

The point still stands. Not everyone is preoccupied with that even in those states where coaches make part of that decision.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The point still stands. Not everyone is preoccupied with that even in those states where coaches make part of that decision.

You wrote "BTW" which indicates you are adding information. I had already mentioned voting varies by state, so you were re-stating something I already said and implying I didn't know it. English is funny :P

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I'm only speaking for myself. Here are a few reasons:

I want the coach's vote for the state tournament (varies by state).

In Indiana, where AremRed and I are from, this is the #1 reason. Coaches have too much control on who works the tourney. Even if you Tech up a coach, they still can put a bad vote on you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

In Indiana, where AremRed and I are from, this is the #1 reason. Coaches have too much control on who works the tourney. Even if you Tech up a coach, they still can put a bad vote on you.

But can't they put in a "bad vote" for you regardless of you giving a T? The point is no matter what that seems like too much to worry about. Do your job and eventually the right people will respect you. Most coaches know why they got a T, even if they do not agree with you giving it to them.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

To follow up on Jeff's comment: A long time ago a D1 official told a group of us newbies (less than 5 years), "They're going to be upset with you when you blow the whistle. They're going to be upset when you don't. Might as well blow the whistle."

Translation: You can't control what they do, only what you do.

[scrounge]

and another one that a veteran assigner told us last year, "If the coach is mad enough to earn that T, he's not voting for you anyway, so you might as well give it to him"

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by kylejt

"Come on, Blue, don't let him yell at you like that", always get a bewildered look.

Maybe it's because they don't know who "blue" is and they think you're talking to someone else.