A question from a baseball umpire

[kylejt]

Why do basketball officials allow themselves to be hollered at by coaches? In a baseball game, most basketball coaches wouldn't last five minutes without an EJ. But in basketball they go off right in the officials ear, non-stop. Top of their lungs screaming stuff.

I've never understood that.

I do enjoy going to HS basketball games with some of my baseball umpire friends, and seeing how soon we'd EJ a coach. It's almost always very quickly. "Come on, Blue, don't let him yell at you like that", always get a bewildered look.

[Rich]

Why do baseball umpires allow coaches to delay the game and come onto the playing surface to question / argue calls? When they do that, my fellow basketball officials and I always remark how we'd call a technical foul and the umpires do nothing.

(BTW, I work both sports. Both sports are different.)

[Rich1]

...and no coach will be allowed to go off in my ear, or far away from my ear for that matter. I will accept questions appropriately asked, I might tolerate objections that are reasonably & quickly expressed, and definetly will address comments or behavior that cross the line.

It is usually the less experienced refs who allow coaches to exceed reasonable limitations. I also believe it isup to more experienced refs to help out their partners in certain situations and to help them learn from them.

Now, I've always wondered why football coaches are allowed to curse and yell at the refs. See it all the time on tv and at games and think to myself that I wouldn't last long because i'd be throwng flags all the time.

A difference between baseball and basketball is the proximity of coaches (and fans) to the action. You might get yelled at more if the coaches could stand right next to you as you made your calls.

Originally Posted by kylejt

Why do basketball officials allow themselves to be hollered at by coaches?

I'm only speaking for myself. Here are a few reasons:

I know I should tech him, but don't have the balls.
I have the balls, but am not sure if I should tech him.
I made a bad call and want to give him some slack.
A tech is a big call and I don't want my assignor/the AD to not assign me games in the future.
I want the coach's vote for the state tournament (varies by state).
I was focused on something else and didn't realize he was yelling at me.
2 points and the ball is a big deal, especially at the end of a close game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why do baseball umpires allow coaches to delay the game and come onto the playing surface to question / argue calls? When they do that, my fellow basketball officials and I always remark how we'd call a technical foul and the umpires do nothing.

(BTW, I work both sports. Both sports are different.)

This pretty much sums it up.

And I also have worked both sports in the past at the HS and college level. I no longer do baseball and probably will not be going back to that sport.

And I could add that football officials get yelled and hollered at in a way that neither baseball or basketball officials would tolerate.

Sports have different standards. That is never going to change.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I'm only speaking for myself. Here are a few reasons:

I know I should tech him, but don't have the balls.
I have the balls, but am not sure if I should tech him.
I made a bad call and want to give him some slack.
A tech is a big call and I don't want my assignor/the AD to not assign me games in the future.
I want the coach's vote for the state tournament (varies by state).
I was focused on something else and didn't realize he was yelling at me.
2 points and the ball is a big deal, especially at the end of a close game.

Or perhaps officials realize that a technical foul isn't the first tool to reach for in the toolkit. At least very rarely it is.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I'm only speaking for myself. Here are a few reasons:

I know I should tech him, but don't have the balls.
I have the balls, but am not sure if I should tech him.
I made a bad call and want to give him some slack.
A tech is a big call and I don't want my assignor/the AD to not assign me games in the future.
I want the coach's vote for the state tournament (varies by state).
I was focused on something else and didn't realize he was yelling at me.
2 points and the ball is a big deal, especially at the end of a close game.

Officials in basketball have a lot of ways to respond to a coach. For one they can be next to them and respond. Not everything is about not willing to do something, there are other tools in the shed.

BTW, not everyone has to worry about a coach deciding your playoff fate. That never comes into play in my thinking. Coaches can rate us, but they are one rating. Who cares what they think.

Originally Posted by Rich

Or perhaps officials realize that a technical foul isn't the first tool to reach for in the toolkit.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Officials in basketball have a lot of ways to respond to a coach.....there are other tools in the shed.

Correct about other tools in the toolkit/shed. OP mentioned baseball ejections so I responded with reasons we might not give a coach a tech.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

BTW, not everyone has to worry about a coach deciding your playoff fate.

Which is why I wrote "varies by state" :P

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Correct about other tools in the toolkit/shed. OP mentioned baseball ejections so I responded with reasons we might not give a coach a tech.

I did not eject many coaches as a baseball umpire. I did not need to. Some have the ability to get what you want without having to do the most extreme method. Even amongst baseball umpires, different umpires handled situations very differently.

Originally Posted by AremRed

Which is why I wrote "varies by state" :P

The point still stands. Not everyone is preoccupied with that even in those states where coaches make part of that decision.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The point still stands. Not everyone is preoccupied with that even in those states where coaches make part of that decision.

You wrote "BTW" which indicates you are adding information. I had already mentioned voting varies by state, so you were re-stating something I already said and implying I didn't know it. English is funny :P

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

You wrote "BTW" which indicates you are adding information. I had already mentioned voting varies by state, so you were re-stating something I already said and implying I didn't know it. English is funny :P

You may not be aware that people do not do things for post season purposes.

And based on previous posts, you do not seem to be aware of other things officials regardless of "system" they work under. Not every officials is a slave to their system and is scared to do their jobs.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

you do not seem to be aware of other things officials regardless of "system" they work under

Huh?

[BryanV21]

There's a good chance that the basketball officials you're watching, if they are like me, are ignoring the coach. I've been told a few times that a coach was yelling quite a bit, and I didn't notice.

Along those lines, a couple of weeks ago I was doing a game in which I gave a technical foul to a player from the home team for taunting. As I was going to report the foul a fan was apparently losing his mind. It was so bad my partner had him removed from the gym. The funny thing is... I didn't notice it.

It may be a good and bad thing, but I've come to just ignore anything but questions. That's not to say some times things don't get so bad that I do notice and react accordingly.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by kylejt

"Come on, Blue, don't let him yell at you like that", always get a bewildered look.

Maybe it's because they don't know who "blue" is and they think you're talking to someone else.

[bellnier]

Rugby referee here. How we ignore/respond/penalize coaches depends on the sport. Rugby is much like basketball in that we try to ignore the coaches (unless they ask question respectfully) until they go too far. Most often we will give the coach a warning. The second offense and the coach is watching the game from the parking lot. We have little tolerance for nonsense from coaches because we have but one referee and 30 players on the pitch. Unlike basketball, by rugby law there is no penalty to players (e.g. no foul shots awarded) for their coaches misbehavior. I'm fortunate to have plenty of decent NCAA D1 basketball in my area, and I appreciate how basketball refs control both the game and the coaching staff - in both our sports its all about game management and player safety.
Cheers.