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-   -   Violation or not? Player near sideline (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97267-violation-not-player-near-sideline.html)

jhc2010 Thu Feb 13, 2014 07:52pm

Violation or not? Player near sideline
 
A1 intercepts a pass near the sideline. He takes one dribble in bounds, sees that he is headed out of bounds, one-handed passes the ball up the court, comes back on bounds, and continues dribbling. Violation?

Camron Rust Thu Feb 13, 2014 08:10pm

If by 1-handed pass you mean he caught it and threw it, then it is an illegal dribble. (double dribble)

If by 1-handed pass you mean that he batted it down the floor, left the ball (it got away from him), then it is legal. (interrupted dribble)

Mregor Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 922695)
If by 1-handed pass you mean that he batted it down the floor, left the ball (it got away from him), then it is legal. (interrupted dribble)

I remember this discussion years ago. I'm of the camp that it is not an interrupted dribble if it is intentional. But still don't know if I'd have OOB during a dribble. Guess it depends on how long and what it looked like and what I thought he was doing. Would be better to show a video of this and get opinions on same play rather than having to picture this in our own minds. Anyone have video of plays like this?

jhc2010 Fri Feb 14, 2014 08:38am

In this situation, it was clear that the player intentionally tipped the ball up the court so he could continue dribbling after he returned in bounds.

Is there a case play similar to this?

Adam Fri Feb 14, 2014 09:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mregor (Post 922708)
I remember this discussion years ago. I'm of the camp that it is not an interrupted dribble if it is intentional. But still don't know if I'd have OOB during a dribble. Guess it depends on how long and what it looked like and what I thought he was doing. Would be better to show a video of this and get opinions on same play rather than having to picture this in our own minds. Anyone have video of plays like this?

If you don't have an interrupted dribble, you really have no choice but to call the OOB violation.

Personally, I have an interrupted dribble. There's nothing in the rule that says it has to be accidental to be interrupted. He relinquished control knowing he was going OOB and couldn't stop it. Then he returns to the court and resumes the dribble.

My rule of thumb, if the ball leaves his reach and/or bounces twice, it's an interrupted dribble. Note, that's a rule of thumb, not an absolute.

Welpe Fri Feb 14, 2014 09:55am

This sounds pretty similar to this play I had a few years ago. We had a good discussion about it.

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tml#post634626

BktBallRef Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:37am

NOT.

The player made a smart, legal play. There will always be officials who see this as something that should be penalized but by rule, it's nothing.

letemplay Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:56am

I believe these situations are covered by 7.1.1 B, C, and D ('11-'12 Casebook)

BillyMac Fri Feb 14, 2014 03:42pm

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 922767)
I believe these situations are covered by 7.1.1 B, C, and D ('11-'12 Casebook)

7.1.1 SITUATION B: A1 blocks a pass near the end line. The ball falls to the
floor inbounds, but A1, who is off balance, steps off the court. A1 returns
inbounds, secures control of the ball and dribbles. RULING: Legal. A1 did not
leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did.
This situation is similar to one in which A1 makes a try from under the basket and
momentum carries A1 off the court. If the try is unsuccessful, A1 may come back
onto the court and regain control since A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and
did not have control of the ball when he/she did.

7.1.1 SITUATION C: A1 blocks a pass near the sideline and the ball goes into
A1’s front court. A1’s momentum carries him/her out of bounds. He/she immediately
returns inbounds, secures control of the ball, dribbles, shoots, and scores.
RULING: Legal. (4-35-1a; 7-1-2; 9-3)

7.1.1 SITUATION D: A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a
boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court.
A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning
inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up
the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble. RULING: Legal in
(a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes
the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is
an illegal dribble violation. (4-15-5; 4-15-6d; 4-35; 9-5)

BillyMac Fri Feb 14, 2014 03:46pm

Does This Apply Here ???
 
9-3-1-Note: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary,
even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhc2010 (Post 922692)
He takes one dribble in bounds, sees that he is headed out of bounds, one-handed passes the ball up the court, comes back on bounds, and continues dribbling.


Adam Fri Feb 14, 2014 04:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 922844)
9-3-1-Note: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary,
even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.

Sure, unless you deem it an interrupted dribble, during which there is no player control.

BillyMac Fri Feb 14, 2014 04:10pm

Dribble Interuptus ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 922856)
Sure, unless you deem it an interrupted dribble, during which there is no player control.

4-15-5: An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after deflecting
off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the dribbler. There is no
player control during an interrupted dribble.

Doesn't sound like an interrupted dribble to me ("one hand passes the ball up the court").

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhc2010 (Post 922692)
He takes one dribble in bounds, sees that he is headed out of bounds, one-handed passes the ball up the court, comes back on bounds, and continues dribbling.


Adam Fri Feb 14, 2014 04:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 922864)
4-15-5: An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after deflecting
off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the dribbler. There is no
player control during an interrupted dribble.

Doesn't sound like an interrupted dribble to me ("one hand passes the ball up the court").

Where does it say the ID can't be intentional?

BillyMac Fri Feb 14, 2014 04:23pm

Dribble, Or Interrupted Dribble, It Can't Be Both At The Same Time ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 922868)
Where does it say the ID can't be intentional?

Here?

4-15-1: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats
(intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once
or several times.

You can't have your cake, and eat it too.

Adam Fri Feb 14, 2014 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 922870)
Here?

4-15-1: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats
(intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once
or several times.

You can't have your cake, and eat it too.

Yep, it's still a dribble, but it's interrupted.


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