Here we go again!!!!

[JRutledge]

Had a game tonight that was a rescheduled game.

I had the host team 2 times previously and in both games the coach got a T. I gave the first one in one game at a Christmas Tournament. In the second game another official gave the other one in a one day shootout.

Of course when I took the game for tonight about a week ago, I knew this fact and like usual, I tell my partners before the game what happened before so they would not be blindsided by some animosity this coach might have for me. This was also a very big rivalry and the assignor of the game wanted me and my partners because we had deep playoff experience and in his judgment he wanted us together to showcase our talents to the state. So this game had other ramifications, at least in the mind of the assignor. I did think for a second to turn down the assignment, but I felt it could not hurt and just like anything a learning experience.

Well I was the Referee and I was doing my pre-game duties and I go to each coach to confirm some things with the book before the 10 minute mark. When I got to the host coach, he says to me, "You have us a couple of times before right?" I say "yes." Then he says, "I was T'd up both games." Then he proceeded to say he did not understand why he got the second T in the second game. Now keep in mind I did not give the T, but I am very aware why he got one. Long story short that official is about one of the nicest guys in officiating and felt the coach was being disrespectful and walked away from him after he was going to him to give him information. Granted he did other things, but that was the last straw. I did everything to avoid that conversation and then I left the coach and got to the other side of the court.

Well the game starts and this coach goes back to his old ways. But this time I decide that I am not acknowledging him at all. Even when he asks a question he is combative and argumentative not matter the answer I give him. We talk about it in the locker room and I just decide the second half to basically ignore him almost all together. The game ends and he gets not T and his team wins after being down in the first half.

This kind of situation never happened to me. Never had a coach ever make a point to say what happened in a game at that time before the contest. I did everything to be professional but did not know if I should have said other things.

What would you have done? Would you have even addressed it or come up with some other way to handle the situation?

Peace (Sorry for being long)

[just another ref]

I would say short answers to direct questions with nothing extra.


Had you before a couple of times, right?

yep

I was T'd up both times, right?

I think so

I didn't understand the second T at all. What was that about?

I'm not sure. I'm not the one who called it.

[BillyMac]

"Water under the bridge. This is a new game coach."

[MathReferee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"Water under the bridge. This is a new game coach."

This was my line of thinking as well.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"Water under the bridge. This is a new game coach."

+1, I was thinking the same thing while reading Jeff's op

[MD Longhorn]

Had you before a couple of times, right?

Possibly - I work a lot of games and don't remember everyone.

I was T'd up both times, right?

I don't know - like I said, I work a lot of games. I definitely don't memorize who got called for what. This is a new game.

I didn't understand the second T at all. What was that about?

Coach, we're not going to discuss previous games at all. This is a new game.

[deecee]

The whole conversation sounded passive aggressive and childish. Of course he knew you worked other games. Of course he knew he was T'd up. And finally he knew why got that second T.

1. Yup
2. Yup
3. I don't talk about the past

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"Water under the bridge. This is a new game coach."

I actually agree with BillyMac. Whoda thunk?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I actually agree with BillyMac. Whoda thunk?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

...
This kind of situation never happened to me. Never had a coach ever make a point to say what happened in a game at that time before the contest. I did everything to be professional but did not know if I should have said other things....

Years ago here in VA, the smaller schools played their girls' games in the fall, and I was in my 4th year of officiating. 4 minutes into the first game of the season I T the coach of the perennially best team in the conference. He was also hands down the worst behaved coach in the conference.

Fast forward to late in the season. His team is still undefeated and I have him at his place. As I'm walking through the hallway he bumps into me and tells me he doesn't understand why I T'd him, and it was the only T he received all season. I respond (maybe not the best response ), "I find that hard to believe".

3rd quarter, his team is up 40 points. His team loses the ball via a scramble and held ball right in front of his bench, and my partner, who is the trail on the play. HC starts b!tching as I come over tableside to administer the throw-in going the other way. Following throw-in, play proceeds into opponents front court where my partner has a whistle for an IF against the offense (involving an elbow). But HC is still b!tching about the previous play and is standing next to the scorer's table, so I hit him with a T. Before I can walk away, he comes closer to halfcourt and starts screaming at me, so I bang him again.

All ejections are reviewed by the commissioner and VHSL (state), and it was upheld. I had his team on my schedule 2 weeks later (with the same partner) and my commissioner chose to keep me on the game. HC may have made one comment to me the entire game. The following season his team won state championship and he took a HC position at a D2 school in West Virginia. He was one of the best coaches I've ever seen at the HS level, but he was a complete a-hole towards officials.

I lot guys in my association patted me on the back for ejecting him, b/c they said a lot of us talked big about handling him, but I was the only officials who actually ever ran him.

[Hugh Refner]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

"You have us a couple of times before right?"

"No coach, I haven't. But I have a twin brother and you may have had him call some of your games. The main difference between the two of us is that I call a lot more technicals. Have a good game."

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Had a game tonight that was a rescheduled game.

I had the host team 2 times previously and in both games the coach got a T. I gave the first one in one game at a Christmas Tournament. In the second game another official gave the other one in a one day shootout.

Of course when I took the game for tonight about a week ago, I knew this fact and like usual, I tell my partners before the game what happened before so they would not be blindsided by some animosity this coach might have for me. This was also a very big rivalry and the assignor of the game wanted me and my partners because we had deep playoff experience and in his judgment he wanted us together to showcase our talents to the state. So this game had other ramifications, at least in the mind of the assignor. I did think for a second to turn down the assignment, but I felt it could not hurt and just like anything a learning experience.

Well I was the Referee and I was doing my pre-game duties and I go to each coach to confirm some things with the book before the 10 minute mark. When I got to the host coach, he says to me, "You have us a couple of times before right?" I say "yes." Then he says, "I was T'd up both games." Then he proceeded to say he did not understand why he got the second T in the second game. Now keep in mind I did not give the T, but I am very aware why he got one. Long story short that official is about one of the nicest guys in officiating and felt the coach was being disrespectful and walked away from him after he was going to him to give him information. Granted he did other things, but that was the last straw. I did everything to avoid that conversation and then I left the coach and got to the other side of the court.

Well the game starts and this coach goes back to his old ways. But this time I decide that I am not acknowledging him at all. Even when he asks a question he is combative and argumentative not matter the answer I give him. We talk about it in the locker room and I just decide the second half to basically ignore him almost all together. The game ends and he gets not T and his team wins after being down in the first half.

This kind of situation never happened to me. Never had a coach ever make a point to say what happened in a game at that time before the contest. I did everything to be professional but did not know if I should have said other things.

What would you have done? Would you have even addressed it or come up with some other way to handle the situation?

Peace (Sorry for being long)

IMHO, regarding ignoring him, I think you did the right thing. Sounds like he was looking for a confrontaion anyway. By not acknowledging him, you made the game better on all levels. Forget for a moment it was a basketball game, I think your handling applies to any situation whether it be family, work related, or in public. You win, he doesn't get to screw up game, you do your job without having him turn attention on himself.

NU game the other night and friend was behind NU bench....Collins gets overly petulant with Ted Valentine who without whacking him tells Collins he's heard enough. Valentine then ignores Collins for rest of game as Collins tries to engage him. He's done with him. Collins knew his place.

I think in a subtle, non verbal way, let coach know he was done. Well played as far I see it.

That said, if he is overboard, you would take care of him.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fullor30

...NU game the other night and friend was behind NU bench....Collins gets overly petulant with Ted Valentine who without whacking him tells Collins he's heard enough. Valentine then ignores Collins for rest of game as Collins tries to engage him. He's done with him. Collins knew his place.....

From what I've heard, Collins had a rep of being a jack-wagon when he was assisting at Duke. He probably already has a short leash.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

From what I've heard, Collins had a rep of being a jack-wagon when he was assisting at Duke. He probably already has a short leash.

He learned from the Jedi Master

[VACaller]

Although you and your crew got through the game without T’ing him, you may have made it worse on the next crew that gets him. Based on your post, I can’t tell whether he deserved a T in this game and you chose not to give it to him because you ignored him or he was annoying but not to the level of a T. By getting the win and not getting T’d, whatever his behavior was during that game will probably be his standard or he’ll see how much further another crew will let him go. Most coaches that have been T’d on a regular basis know where the line is and when they’ve crossed it. Find out who has him next and see how he acted.