Marcus Smart shove - OK State/Texas Tech (Video)
 

I have to agree with the announcers he should have been tossed from the game.

Ok. State/ Texas Tech
 

Anyone else think Marcus Smart should have been ejected? I'm sure the guy said something, but that can't happen.

If you didn't see it, Smart falls into the crowd gets up and shoves a fan.

Absolutely he should have been ejected. Unfortunately, it looked like the trail was the only one who saw the play, and he was more than 30 feet away. Thankfully the coach took him out.

I'd be interested to know what the fan said to instigate that. Hopefully Tech will try to find out.

Still....

No doubt he said something. If that happened in a high school game, I would run the fan and the player as well.

It is being reported on Twitter that he was called a racial slur.

Peace

That is what I would have guessed was said, something along those lines.

And if that is the case, still not smart on his part. He has to be better than that.

Peace

Unfortunate situation. Not knowing what/if fan said I don't think you can address the fan at this level. Unfortunately, we have to address the player. I don't have a problem with how the game officials handled the situation. Edited to say: I would hope game management would deal with the fans. Especially since the officials didn't hear/ don't know what was said.

Some of you may be able to browse to the play here: ESPN3 -- Oklahoma State vs. Texas Tech

For what it's worth, it appears that he is clearly reacting (albeit wrongly) to something. He is on the ground for a moment and then he turns and looks back at the fans and then goes. In this situation, based on video I've seen so far, I have no problems with the game officials actions.

Judging by his reaction, I figured as much. You're right, he has to be better in this case.

That said, I don't trust twitter reports. I hope Tech investigates.

Based on my poor lip-reading skills the white guy says "sorry about that" when Smart is in his face.

And for me that is not a justification. But I can see a young man overreact to a comment like that. As far as I am concerned that better be the only reason he reacted that way. And I feel he should be suspended for a lot of games if not the rest of the season. No place for what he did. If he was called something, tell the officials or the authorities and let them handle it. He lost the moral high ground by acting that way.

Peace

Apparently this fan has done negative behavior before (gray shirt):

Article: Texas Tech Basketball Fan Extraordinaire

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/i0NdJahHN0w?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And where exactly are we supposed to be browsing to?

Edit: for those who were curious, it happens at 6.2 seconds left in 2nd half.

First thing I noticed is the guy going up for the shot traveled.

Thank you for getting this out of the way...now we can get back to the real discussion at hand.

It is secondary to the main discussion, yes, but seriously, it's there. Airborne player catches the ball and lands left, right, left.

Secondary? It's not even tertiary or quaternary. It's not even on the radar. Again, thank you again for the obligatory travel post. The quota has been met, and now we can get back to the real discussion at hand.

Here's the situation being discussed:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/7SjRYMzrUKk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

One thing for sure, anything the fan said to set Smart off would have been heard by several people. If it was racial, I hope Tech does the right thing.

From an ESPN report on the game:

Big 12 coordinator of officials Curtis Shaw told ESPN that the officials don't have jurisdiction to eject a player who is involved in an altercation with a fan.

"There is no precedent for that," Shaw said. "Our rules are for flagrant (foul) 1 or 2. We don't have grounds for dealing with a fan. We don't have a rule to get involved when the player is involved with a fan. We don't know what was said. The official, Doug Sirmons, didn't know what was said."

Shaw said anything involving a fan is up to the host school.

"That's up to the security of the home team and the conference," Shaw said. "We've never had a fan with a player incident before."

Since they haven't had an incident before, of course there would be no precedent. I would have been ok if they had set one and tossed the player and the fan. That is just completely unacceptable behavior from the player, but it's obvious that the fan said something to provoke the action. Having done it himself, I'm sure Mr. Shaw can't get that upset at his officials for removing fans. ;)

I have to wonder what earned the T then. Judging by the timing, it's something he said to the ref.

Just perusing the rule book, trying to find something that might fit:


I find it interesting that fighting does NOT specifically state it has to involve 2 players against EACH OTHER.

I'm still thinking that someday the light will go on -- nobody at that level is praised or rewarded for how well they can spot those kind of travels. The left foot touches almost simultaneously with the gather. Nobody's calling that. I'm not calling that in a boys HS game. It's too fine of a nit to pick.

Did someone steal your account and post that observation as a parody? :D

In other sports, this would be the same thing. You're not going to eject a player in football or baseball for their interactions w/ a fan. I have no problem w/ no ejection mainly because there's no rule support to eject.

You can see the guy saying, "I'm sorry about that", and holding his hands up. He just can't do that.

My guess.
1. Fan says something offensive while Smart is down.
2. Smart confronts fan.
3. Fan says something dismissive, and Smart responds physically.

That is not true. If a football player went into stands and interacted with fans, yes they could be penalized. Same goes for baseball. Of course the interaction would have to be seen, but yes you penalize players when they say things to fans or make gestures, so why would you not be able to do the same from basically an action that could be seen as an assault or a fight?

Peace

As officials, we needed someone to be helping Smart get up after going into the crowd. Hostile environment, rowdy crowd, big play, we needed someone in the trenches. It appeared as if we treated this as business as usual play and then it escalated really quickly and we were left without knowing what happened.

If we are there, we can prevent Smart from attacking the fan. We can then have game management remove the spectator.

Who is going to help him that quickly? Smart has to be smarter than that. Most players make that kind of play and when it is clear they are not hurt, they turn around and go back to the court. I am sure often people say things to players in these situations that are not nice. And I know during the games things are said to players that are not nice and we do not see players going into the stands to address those issues.

Name another situation in big time college basketball you have ever seen a player go into the stands and confront or physically engage a fan?

Peace

Is this a joke? You think the officials, after calling the foul, responsibility is to help the kid up? that's what his team is there for. It's just an unfortunate set of events that occurred and we learn and move on. We don't "need" anyone in the trenches. It would be another story all together if two opposing players land one on top of another then we need someone in there to make sure THAT doesn't escalate. But as far as I am concerned, it was a business as usual play.

We don't need knee jerk reactions and caseplays and rule changes that address what the officials *should* do or have done. It's a 1 in a million chance and I am good leaving it at that. At the least maybe a caseplay for how a penalty should be adjudicated with player and fan interaction. but that's it.

Child's Play Compared To This ...
 

Dont misunderstand me, this is still not an excuse for what he did. Off the court this is grounds for a battery charge, why should it be different in this case?

Jeff Orr Statement


"I would like to take this opportunity to offer my sincere apologies to Marcus Smart, Oklahoma State, Tubby Smith and the Texas Tech Men's Basketball program. My actions last night were inappropriate and do not reflect myself or Texas Tech - a university I love dearly. I regret calling Mr. Smart a "piece of crap" but I want to make it known that I did not use a racial slur of any kind. Additionally, I would like to offer my apologies to Texas Tech fans that have been embarrassed by the attention this incident has created."


He has also agreed not to attend anymore games for the rest of the year.

Irony---Smarts first game back will be against Texas Tech.

I don't believe him. He is a liar. Once again another Black player gets Riley Coopered. Now Marcus is gone for 3,games. This guy can still come to games next year. He should be banned for next year. He probably was not going to attend them this year anyway.

From deadspin
We haven't done the total CSI type analysis, but it appears this is what TTech superfan Jeff Orr says to Marcus Smart: "go back to ———".


The guy said a racist slur.

You have no idea what was said, and there are enough bad lip reading videos out there that I'm skeptical of any "analysis." It was a loud gym, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's telling the truth and Smart just heard it wrong. There were enough people around him, and enough cameras in the vicinity, I would be surprised to find he could get away with a racial slur that close to the court without it being caught.

I'm also guessing the offensive comment was made before the cameras were really on him, judging by his reaction and the body language of both.

How does one hear a racial slur wrong? I need an example. This has no place in sports one of the few places in life where there is an equal playing field.

So tell me exactly what the officials job is? The offensive players run into the crowd and are pounding their chest. The defensive player who just picked up a foul in a closely contested game, go flying into the crowd.

Maybe you can be like the C and go grab the ball, I'm sure you think that's #1 priority.

The safety of players of the crew and then players is #1 and #2 priority.

I agree that we may not have prevented the reaction, but in this case we didn't even try. We have to realize that there is potential for things like this to happen.

Smart does need to be smarter than that and so do we.

I don't doubt it though, as you said, it doesn't excuse Smart's reaction.

Speaking of Smart's reaction, my first reaction was something racial was said (for what it's worth, one of my 17-year-old sons thought the same thing). Smart looked fairly relaxed as he was being helped by the other guy then went from zero to 100 emotionally after hearing what was said. If Smart had been a hothead during the game that's one thing. Something set him off in a big way.

I'm highly skeptical of Orr's apology and his denial of using any racial language especially given the video from the other game of him shooting the one-armed salute at a visiting opposing player.

I don't know what he said. Do you normally guess when making calls? He certainly said something out of line but claiming anything else is just a guess.

Some people expect to hear certain things and will hear them when they are not there.

We have an official that does that (and not in a racial way, he just thinks coaches are challenging him when they're just telling their kids to run a play or telling their kids why they got the foul call).

Or the fact that it was noisy and a lot of people were yelling a lot of things....mix three or four different people together and you can get some odd stuff.

Ok.

Seriously? You don't know what was said. You don't know who's lying. Quit acting like you're all-knowing.

I don't like the fact that fans are allowed to talk trash and basically be instigators, but that's the way it is. It's up to players, coaches, and others involved with the game to rise above such things. Smart didn't do that, and he's learning the hard way how not to respond to idiots.

Yup, get the ball, and line the kids up to shoot FT's. We officiate the game. If it were 2 opposing players then we get in there. In this case there was no need for that. What do you do when a player goes to save a ball, flying OOB, and lands in the third row after he saves the ball?

I'm guessing you stop officiating and go help the player up :rolleyes:

Maroon,

It's called deflection. I screwed up and I'm looking for support. The race card being played when convenient. It's like finding Jesus when convenient.

If a racial slur was thrown, let administration deal with it. There is no excuse for a player going into the stands and assaulting a fan.

Fed interpretation? Casebook?
 

Wasn't there an NFHS interpretation or casebook play that ruled that a player/team member that entered the stands to fight was to be considered "fighting"?

Every crew needs a U2. Go grab that ball.

Someone has to while you are running around picking up every player off the court, or in the stands. From the video if there was anything that the officials could have done it would have been because they could see the future. But hey you would have this under control. :rolleyes:

What? Race card?

There are not many things in life people react that way to. And if he went to the guy that said something to him, then there you go.

But it is also those that would say those kinds of things, do not want to publicly be known as a racist. One of the biggest things I notice amongst a certain group of people is they cannot stand to be called that even when they have used or said things inapproriate. Just look at our politics and the things said about our President, and the people that made the specific comments that clearly have a history run from the claim of being called a racist. Even if it was clearly on tape he likely would have ran from it as people around him might have not dealt with him in the same way. He has a lot to lose. And I love how being called something makes that person playing a "card." It would be no different if he was called a "Piece of s h i t," that is sitll very inapproprate, but does not have any other implications.

Sorry, I do not believe the "fan." I think he said something or he knows who said it and does not want to be associated with that label more than anything.

Peace

If the fan was immediately punished like Marcus. No argument from me. But he was not because he is White. If it was a white player and a black fan, the black fan would be arrested immediately. And you know that's is a fact.

As others have said, no matter what the fan said, it doesn't come close to justifying the reaction. We may never know what was said. As far as the fan, who knows? He may be a psycho who just loses it at games, and he may be cold and calculating and works at shouting the most inflammatory thing possible to unnerve the opposing player, which certainly worked here. Even if it was a racial remark, the guy may or may not be a racist. No matter what was said, was any law broken here? Whether there was or not, this is not an officiating issue.

White players wouldn't do this because they can control their emotions and have more character :rolleyes:.

Not everything between individuals of 2 different skin color needs to be a color issue. Speculating does nothing more than add fuel to the fire and perpetuate the same bs over and over again. [/end politics on officials forum]

I think it would depend if they were a big donor to the university or not. And it appears this guy does more than just support the team by coming to the games only.

Peace

He didn't GO into the stands. He ended up there as a result of the play.

What does "playing the race card' mean, and what "card" is played when someone distorts facts?

The "card" is the one that certain people do not want to deal with and admit that certain things take place. You know, all this racism stuff went away in the 60s. ;)

Peace

Yes, the Big XII has had an incident like that.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/1x9PmnTdqno" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'd say the incident where the entire UT team ended up in the crowd was worse. So maybe it isn't precedent.

Fwiw I believe that Curtis Shaw is incorrect and that the fighting rule of the NCAA does cover the situation of a player vs a fan. The rule clearly says "individual." Also there have been past such incidents.

FIFA soccer's law on violent conduct is written similarly and definitely covers any violent conduct no matter whom it is taken against. The player would be red carded.

I definitely expect clarification from the NCAA on this for next season.

Good find by Okiezebra! That video conclusively proves that Curtis Shaw is spewing nonsense. He was certainly working D1 when that Texas game was played and couldn't have been unaware of it.

This situation will likely be covered in the next bulletin on the Arbiter NCAA website on some level.

I do not blame Shaw for not remembering this past situation. He was not the supervisor and this was over 12 years ago. He probably was unaware of the situation or just forgot. And the NCAA back then did not have the video updates or information as they do today.


Peace

Thanks for sharing the clip.

Good thing deecee was out there getting the ball.

I am sorry, but you sound really silly. For one college basketball at this level is nothing like HS basketball or even small college. If you think I am going into the stands to get players, you have lost your feakin mind. For one that is all I need is a lawsuit for grabbing someone that gets punched or contacted in some way or have that happen to me. These officials in many cases are getting paid thousands of dollars to work those games. If they want to go into the stands and grab players, go right ahead, but most know better. And in this situation that happen this weekend, I did not see a single official going to get Smart or any of the players. The officials stayed on the floor as they should have.

Now you can go right ahead, but there have been lawsuits based on what officials did to brake up fights. And then you go into a fight where the many people could be throwing thngs are going. Even in the Malice in the Palace, I did not see the officials leave the floor to get players out of the stands. Stop it already with that nonsense.

Peace

If you listen to the clip, the announcer says there were no ejections and the only T given was for leaving the bench. Maybe Shaw knows what he is talking about.

The play took him 3 rows in. Reacting to the fan took him 10 rows in so that he could get to the guy. It's not so much how he got there, it's what he did after he got there.

Who distorted facts?

10 rows in, seriously. So Smart, who had just got helped to his feet by a fan, ran up 7 more rows to push the a$$-hole? If the guy was in row 10 while Smart was in row 3, how the hell did Smart know this guy said something?

That's what you saw? GTFOH

The jack-wagon was standing right there in the first row.

So you have knowledge of a precedent for ejecting a player in such a situation?

You are.

The fan was like in the first row behind the basket. Smart fell right behind or next to the basket. Smart took about one step after getting up to confront this Orr guy. So no one was in the 3rd row and no one was in the 10th row.

Peace

Wow, you completely misread what I wrote.

I think it's possible that he called him a piece of sh1t, and Smart heard the word ni****. I frankly don't know. But feel free to assume the worst of someone you don't know because he's a white douchebag.

Again, I have no idea what was said. I assume Smart thought he heard a racial slur. I assume nothing with regard to what the fan actually said.

Good point, but Shaw also noted there had never been a situation like this at all.

Ooh! Camp speak! Love it.

- How does anyone hear anything wrong? Guess what happens all the time.
- Who has suggested that there is a place in sports for this? You are assuming that the FAN (probably a jacka$$) used a racial slur.

No one thinks it’s possible he was a little embarrassed about getting posterized on that play?

1. If in fact this guy used some sort of racial epitaph, he should be banned from attending any school activity for a period of time. If this can be verified 100% the court of public opinion will crucify him accordingly.

2. There is an equal chance he said absolutely nothing out of line and just got underneath M. Smart skin at the wrong time. In which case Smart's only possible explanation is he used a racial slur. This wouldn't be the first time someone accused another of a racial slur in order to explain stupid behavior.

I cannot believe for a second that no one else heard this. I don't care how loud it was. Unless you’re saying that everyone in that section is a racist and is covering for this fan. Why is it every time something like this happens between a white person and a black person it's racially motivated? I am not saying it doesn't happen. It absolutely happens; everyday somewhere. Not in the frequency in sports where everything can always be boiled down to race.

Maybe this Fan is just and A-hole. Maybe M. Smart needs to grow up and understand his environment. My guess is that there are plenty of representatives at his home court who are capable of the same stuff.

Are you serious? I don't know you, and/or don't know of your posting history...but really, are you being sarcastic here?

This.

In any sport I work, in any level, there is no way I'm going into the stands. That is the domain of game administration and the fans.

Going into the stands is akin to a stray bird landing in the hyena pen at the zoo just before feeding time. No need to paint that target on your back because there isn't a thing you can really do to protect that player.

Let's head this discussion off at the pass before it gets going. Nothing productive is going to come from continuing this path of discussion.

I don't even like sitting in the stands watching the first half of the JV game before heading off to the dressing room.

In the first half of the JV game my crew and I were sitting in the stands. We were talking about things involving officiating, whether it was about previous games or about the officials in the game going on at the time, and I saw that a guy sitting behind us was listening. So he knew we were the officials for the varsity game. I wanted to get out of there. Not because I thought he'd do something bad, but I didn't want him to start asking all sorts of questions about what we do, or about calls/non-calls being made.

10/4...I'll take it down a different path and say this:

Smart is a senior, I believe, having played 4 years now. He is also a star, having been I think the conference freshman of the year, POY, and a so called possible lottery pick. This fan, referred to by some as a Super fan, has probably had this same seat near under the basket, as video's have shown from past games, during Smart's time. Assuming then that he's played there 3 times before Saturday, is there a possibility Smart already knew of this guy, maybe had heard some stuff from him in another game? I'll bet it's no stretch this fan singles out the opposing teams best players and tries to start something and get under their skin. Every team's got somebody like that, but clearly this guy has taken it further than most fans, and probably did Saturday. Anyone else think it's probably not the first time Smart has experienced this kind of treatment? Not condoning his actions/reaction at all.

Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. If we time things well, they're starting the third quarter when we walk in. :)

Smart is a sophmore.

Check your facts. Smart is a sophomore.

My fact checking staff has the day off
 

OK I stand corrected...thought he turned down the NBA last year as a junior. Well, I'll adjust my thoughts a bit..perhaps in last year's game there he heard something. My guess is most opposing players know this fan and have been the subject of some of his nonsense.

Can anyone identify that stupid looking lady who was pointing at Smart?

I am in agreement with those that say NO to going into the stands. That is the game admin/site admin/security responsibility. As officials we are asking for a whole lot of potential trouble if we go into the stands.

Smart has to be better than that no matter what the guy said but, being that none of us know Smart personally, we have no idea what type of things set him off and what don't. We all have out hot buttons. That in NO WAY excuses his actions.

The fan's actions/words are not excusable either. However, he paid his money and that is his seat. A very good friend of mine and large donor to Texas Tech knows the guy. I called him over the weekend when I saw this and he told me that guy is a huge donor as well. We both agreed that in NO WAY gives him the right to spew hatred or slurs or whatever. However, we have all heard some pretty nasty things from the fans at one time or other. I know I have had a fan or two removed over my 22 years or so of doing this. I even remember Jimmy Buffet getting booted from his seat at Miami Heat game. Just because you paid a lot of money for the right to sit someplace, and are a huge donor to a school, you still have a responsibility to behave.

Not sure if anything would have happened to the fan if Smart had reported what he said rather than going into the stands, but again, he needs to be better than that on the court. We also have to remember he is still a 20 year old kid.

Just my two cents.

Fair enough point in your first paragraph. I just don't agree. There was opportunity when Smart hit the cameraman to have a presence close to him.

Comparing the Malice in the Palace to the OK State/Texas Tech game is ridiculous. Those were players going into the stands to fight. I already said the crews safety is paramount followed by the players. So of course, that's not our place. Smart didn't go into the stands to fight.

Why? Are you assuming she was involved in the altercation in some way? Why does this person have to be stupid? If, in fact a racially motivated comment was made to Smart; by this (person/people) they will be hammered in the press (rightfully so). It seems you have come to some conclusion already. Nothing is going to be gained by the ignorance that was displayed by all involved. It makes all parties look bad. Unless someone comes forward and admits to what actually happened all this is just he said, she said.

Reguardless of how this pans out my guess is the NCAA will address this with member schools in the future. No one wants a repeat of the Pacers/Detroit fiasco at the college level.

My favorite part of the entire video!

Maybe this puts it to bed
 

Only late by about 18 hours. ;)

I am not grabbing any player. Because if I grab a player and they turn around and hit the person they think did something to them. Then what?

What the hell would have happened if someone hit Smart, spit on Smart or threw something at Smart? He just did not have as willing a person and had teammates that were trying to not escalate the issue. But if the right group of people were involved, he might have started a bigger incident. Just look at the Texas-OSU situation where a teammate not involved in thrown a punch in the 2002 situation. So you say he did not go to fight, but he put his hands on a person in those stands. If that is trying to fight, not sure what he was doing?

Peace

Dang it! That's what I get for not reading all 1000 posts.:p

I guess what threw me was it was still being debated that this guy was a racist, or said something racist. Even after the comments by both Smart and Orr were apearently out there.

Why are we still saying (or implying or questioning) that SuperDouche made a racist comment? Are you telling me NO ONE saw SportsCenter last night? Really?

He said "Piece of Crap". Period.

That said, this (and his antics at other games) should be enough for TTech to ask the man (by ask, I mean - taking away his tickets) to sit upstairs from now on. You're a 50-year old man - the kids you're instigating are 20 (or less). Grow up douchebag.

And to a couple who said things like, "If Smart was a hothead" - have we already forgotten the WV game?

(and PS --- suggesting the officials could have done anything here is asinine. First, it's absurd to think an official would go into the stands... and second - pay closer attention to time and distance and the players already helping Smart up that were between the closest official and the player - zero percent chance of the official pushing past 2 players who were already helping him up to go help him up --- and zero chance of reacting between the moment Smart turns toward the fan in reaction to whatever he thought he heard and the moment Smart pushed the fan).

I have absolutely no love lost for Texas tech or their fans, but I don't believe for a second the fan said anything racial. It would be highly unusual for someone in a public place watching a sporting event that has a much higher percentage of African Americans participating than the normal population and has been that way for decades. I can't tell you the last time I heard the n-word uttered by a non-Black other than a reference to the word itself (i.e. not calling someone the word). That brings up another issue which we don't need to get into, but there were way too many people around for that guy to get away with using such language.

I don't know Smart personally -- he went to HS in the area I worked, but I didn't work any of his games. I do, however, know people who know him. There were some allegations of him moving for athletic purposes (a no-no in Texas) when he was a freshman. That doesn't necessarily make him a bad person or liar, but from what I know about it, given the choice of taking his word or the fan's, I'm probably going to lean toward the fan's.

Bottom line is this: words are not provocation for anything physical. Smart initiated physical contact, so he is clearly in the wrong regardless of what was said. He could be prosecuted for simple assault in Texas. If he's going to have an NBA career that lasts longer than a warm-up, he needs to grow up and realize he will hear all sorts of things said about him, and "piece of crap" will be one of the milder ones.

If you live where I live you would hear in malls, high schools, and sport bars...regularly.

My son is a freshman in high school, last I checked he doesn't have the means to move from one neighborhood to another. That would be something my ex-wife and myself would have control of.

So if my ex-wife or myself decided to move so my son could go to a different school for athletic purposes, that would make my son's version less believable if he were to get into a confrontation?

I'm sorry. Frankly, I hear it so rarely (I'm white, so I'm not going to pretend to understand) that it perks my ears up when I hear it. I've only heard it used once in the course of officiating: one black kid to another black kid trying to provoke a fight on a football field. In that context, I DQ'd the kid. I don't go to sports bars, but the only time I hear it in public is when someone is rapping out loud with his headphones on or between kids using it differently than I ever would, or could.

Exactly. I can't think of anything less relevant for this situation.

Separate from even using it to try and define his character, if I have a son in Texas who is an exceptional MS basketball player, and I want to move three towns over because they have a better HS program, the state of TX tries to say you cannot do that? Did I miss something here...?

How exactly is the state of TX going to prevent you from selling your old house or letting your lease expire and then buying a new house or signing a new lease in a different town? Once you have moved, if you decide to send your son to a public school doesn't it have to be the one that serves the community you live in?