Probably why they're only allegations: and completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.

There are instances of a school / coach / player obtaining an apartment address within the local school district so the athlete can play, even if the "move" is not one we would typically think of.

Just a generic statement, and not making any allegations about any particular situation.

If you did that in Texas ... your son might not play sports that year. But more to the point, if you did that (regardless of location) it speaks volumes to the priority set he grew up with.

Or the emphasis Texas puts on High School sports :rolleyes:

Yes ... the state of Texas doesn't TRY to say you cannot do that. It flat out says you can't do that. And before people start into saying things like "I should have every right to move if it gives my kid a better shot at athletics" - you have to remember why this was created. It wasn't that long ago that athletics in Texas involved full blown recruiting - complete with high schools paying players/parents to move to their districts, and including giving parents high paying jobs to get them to move. (See Odessa Permian football as a particularly egregious example, but it was everywhere). This is why the laws exist - to prevent that from occurring again.

The burden of proof is on the person moving. There are numerous cases of people moving, being unable to prove they didn't do it for athletics, and finding their kid has to sit a year (or more) from high school athletics. I know one (softball) personally. I also know of one that didn't get challenged and completely got away with it... so they aren't perfect.

So instead of punishing the school districts and or setting strict eligibility rules the state of TX makes a knee jerk policy that effects the kids and the families. The little I know about TX this seems about right.

Guilty until proven innocent.

I think you're looking at it backward. They DO have strict eligibility rules. If you have a player that has moved to your district, you must prove they didn't do it for athletics. Granted - 90% of these moves are players that no one is going to challenge or bring to the UIL's attention - and SOME of those did actually move for athletics. But when a blue chipper moves from urban Houston to live in rural Odessa - it gets noticed.

By the way... how do you, from your far-away spot long distant from any of this back story that you're hearing today for the first time, make the assumption that a policy that has evolved over about 30 years is "knee jerk"?????

I didn't I just went by what you wrote about the policy and how its handled, and the fact that the mover is guilty frame of thought just seemed like the policy didn't address the real issue. School board misconduct when it comes to athletics.

So in TX you can buy a gun, no problem, but if you have a high school kid and you buy a new house somewhere else, you have to prove that you DIDNT move because of athletics?

Don't get me wrong, the state of NY has some ass backwards laws and policy too, and I don't know what their laws are regarding this topic. It just seems odd that the family has to prove anything.

Why? What if your kid was a band student and you moved to get into a school with a higher caliber band program?

I feel sorry for kids whose parents are in the military, or lost a job, or got divorced, or had a lease expire, and were forced to move.

To review: We don't know what the guy said. We do know that the kid went into the stands in an aggressive manner. The kid gets the big part of the blame, no matter what was said. Furthermore, if indeed "piece of crap" was the extent of it, as far as I'm concerned, all the blame belongs to the kid. There are numerous fans yelling things like this (and worse) every night, much of it directed at us, by the way. The difference is nobody pays any attention to them.

The kid has been tried, convicted, and punished, and he seems genuinely remorseful.

End of story.

All the blame? So when did it become a good thing for a person to call someone a "Piece of crap" and not expect someone to confront them? Would he call him that on the street? Would he call him that on the road? Would he call him that in the bar?

Sorry but even if that is all he said, what part of society is it OK to call someone a name like that and it be the fault of the person that confronts you? If you did that at a job you might not have a job anymore.

That is what is wrong with this society IMO.

Peace

Either you have no clue what I'm talking about (or what you're talking about for that matter) or you're being a clown. Parents move for their kid's athletic purpose. Its happened quite a bit. In Texas, it is a violation of UIL rules. Anyway, I doubt the parent does it without the full cooperation and knowledge of the kid. In Smart's situation, he actually lived with a teammate at the new HS for a while -- and not his own family. If I were you, I would refrain from commenting on things you clearly don't know the facts on. If you needed some clarification, please ask.

The relevance it has to the situation -- and I really can't believe I have to spell this out -- is that given this incident is a question of credibility -- what Smart said vs. what the fan said, my point was that Smart's past tended to point to some possible credibility issues. You can of course make your own decision, but to suggest his past is not relevant to his propensity to tell the truth is absolutely absurd.

It is illegal under many state rules to move for athletic reasons. But we all know that no one has to tell anyone why they move. If they do all the things BNR says, you can move. And if I want to go to another house or go work in another community, it is hard to tell anyone they cannot do that. Or better yet, how are you going to prove that was the reasonsing? Parents are doing to do what is best for their kids, even if it is not technically legal under some elgibility rules.

Peace

[QUOTE=Texas Aggie;922235]I doubt the parent does it without the full cooperation and knowledge of the kid.[QUOTE]

Since when are the decisions of adults and parents determined by the will of the kids? I don't disagree that parents do this kind of stuff. But the penalty should be levied on the school district, i.e. loss of games, etc. If a parent is willing to uproot a whole family, and buy a house/and or move to a new city, who cares what the reason is. That's my point. Texas takes HS sports way to serious, and its just as corrupt as the NCAA.

But I don't imagine many adults making a decision based on what their kids thought was best.

Well, like anything else, it depends.

I don't know if what I'm stating the rule to be is up to date or not, but as of a year or two ago, here it is: If you have a kid going into the 8th grade, you CAN move for virtually any reason prior to that 8th grade year. After the 8th grade, if you move and your kid participates in sports, they will have to get what's called a PAP -- Previous Athletic Participation form. In it the former school can sign off on the move, or they can suggest it is for athletic purposes. If the latter, the kid will have to sit out varsity competition for one full year. However, if the parent or new school objects, the issue can go to what's called the district committee -- made up mostly of Principals in the new school's UIL district (usually 6-8 schools total). The district can hear evidence and rule, and any ruling can be appealed to the state UIL board. Their ruling is final.

Schools have signed off on kids, and they have protested. Kids have sat out for a year -- often as freshman. Others have protested, and district committees have ruled both ways. The state has gone every which way on appeals.

If you want a summary of an actual example, look up Daxx Garmin online. Perhaps MD Long can chime in as well with what he knows on the subject.

Again, its strictly a credibility issue, and for those of you saying it isn't relevant, you are sadly mistaken.

For an example of a kid who's family moved prior to his 8th grade year, the NFL backup QB Chase Daniel of (???). I forgot where he is now. Moved to the Southlake school district, played for SL Carroll, went to Mizzou, and is now in the NFL. There was no UIL issue.

Nobody said it was a good thing, but as I said earlier, words are never a sufficient provocation for physical violence. He didn't shoot the guy, or even punch him, but he did push him. If the guy had fallen over and hit his head, he could have been seriously injured.

Coaches are responsible for teaching their kids that if they have a problem on the floor, they need to address an official about it. The official then notifies the host school for security issues. This was a conference game of one of the 5 or 6 most well known college conferences. At the very least, OSU could file a report with the Big 12 who would then be responsible for handling it. Shoving a guy is not anywhere in that mix.

JR, you know better than anyone on here there are right ways and wrong ways to handle a situation. We can't excuse ANY PART of wrong behavior just because someone MIGHT have had a good reason for being upset.

First of all my response that you quoted was not towards you. You cannot really answer my question as you did not make the statement I had an issue with.

Secondly I did not say anything about justifying bad behavior. I do not know why I have to be offended by one behavior and have to somehow justify the action or reaction. Honestly I think if the fan keeps his mouth shut, none of this happens. But that does not mean that I do not feel the reaction was wrong and Smart said as much in his press conference. And I never said the suspension was not warranted. I think he was lucky not to get more games for a suspension.

Peace

His credibility is affected by decisions made by his parents to move to another residence, or to pull him out of a school and enroll him in another school?

Sorry, but my 15 year-old can not switch schools, I make that decision. My 15 year-old most definitely can't just move to a new residence.

I've had to move both my sons to different schools (without moving). My kids had ZERO input on the matters. Those decisions included switching their legal residence from one parent to the other, even though no actual changes were made to our custody arrangements. Say we did it for sports-related reasons. So because my ex' and I made some decisions about school enrollment, our sons' credibility comes into question when they are sophomores in college? Wow!!!

And I'm being a clown? :rolleyes:

Texas UIL "moving rule"
 

I ref by night but my day job is coaching HS in Texas. Here is how it works:

If an athlete comes out for my team who was not at my school last year or did not attend one of my junior high feeder schools, I must fill out a "prior athletic participation form" (PAPF). The form is signed by AD and is then sent to the kids old school for the old coach and AD to sign before it is filed with the UIL. If the old school feels the kid has moved JUST for athletic reasons (not a job transfer, etc.) then they note it on the form and UIL will investigate. If not, then the kid is eligible day 1. The athlete may not participate in varsity sports until it is resolved but there is no limition on sub-varsity.

In my 15+ years of coaching I have never denied a kid nor had one denied. I have had some transfer under suspicious reasons (suddenly had apt. on other side of town but rest of family still works & lives here) but its not worth the hassle unless you have solid evidence so it is rarely enforced.

By the way, this applies to athletics only. Yes, a band student can move with no penalty. In fact, a kid can win a $10,000 cash prize for playing the piano but an athlete can'the given anything of real value -- as a coach I can't even give a poor kid lunch money or let them keep the used shoes we play in at the dnd of the season. But, the rules came about out of necessity due to extreme cheating so in reality they are good policies (check out "Friday Night Lights" if your not familiar).

As already pointed out, nobody said it was a good thing, but in this case, no, I don't think the guy expected to be confronted, because most players would know better and exercise self-restraint. What if it was on the street. You cut in front of somebody in line, maybe by accident. The guy says "Watch it, you piece of crap," and you punch his lights out. Who you think will get arrested?

The answer to that, sadly, is at ball games. Offensive is in the eye of the beholder, to some degree. Quite often at a game, especially when several calls in a row go against one team, I hear the word that I dislike most which is "CHEATER". Call me blind, call me stupid, but don't call me a cheater. But take this to game management and see how much support you get.

Thanks for providing some insight and facts. :)

Thanks for those who provided the insight on the TX moving for athletics rule, it does make more sense to me now knowing the process and why it was put into place.

I think no matter what, Smart needs to hold himself to a higher standard for his own benefit if no other reason. Everyone knows who he is, nobody knows who obnoxious Texas Tech fan in row 2 is. Because of this incident, he now has to deal with questions about his character from potential future employers (NBA Teams) which he otherwise may not have had to answer. I have to imagine this very minimally affects the life of (probably) very wealthy TT donor in row 2, outside of a few internet blogs that will blow over.

All that being said, it is hard to process all those thoughts in the heat of a moment, especially being 19 years old. The incident could've turned much worse and thankfully for all it didn't. Hopefully he learns from it as I'm sure he will.

While I'll agree that circumventing the rules is problematic, I disagree that it has relevance. It's something he did as a kid, under the guidance of adults who should have known better. It has no bearing whatsoever on his credibility on this matter.

Kansas City Chiefs.

I agree. It's quite the stretch to think that his reason for moving schools in high school has anything to do with this incident.

And I also agree that he is responsible for keeping his cool when idiot fans try to provoke him. The fan is obviously a loose cannon and thinks he can get away with whatever verbal taunts he wants, but Smart can't do what he did and not expect to be punished. (I don't think he expected that, just saying)

On the flip side. Maybe the fear of having a 6'4" athlete in his prime confront him for acting like such a moron might put the fear of God into him. I'm not condoning the actions of Smart, regardless of what the idiot said, but a loose cannon going off every now and then might not be a bad thing.

It works with coaches. :D

Badnews,

I may be wrong on the number of rows but Smart was moving rapidly and fell head long into the crowd and he is a long guy( (# of rows?) Whatever the guy said, he didn't bend over and whisper in his ear. Then Smart gets up and takes several giant steps more into the stands (#of rows?)

I'm not going to call you a troll or anything else, but the guy was not standing there in the front row.

Jeff Orr seat is in the first of row of seats behind the basket, 2nd seat from the aisle. A fact that you refuse to accept.

Plus you accuse Smart of playing the "race card", whatever that is, followed by purposely making a completely untrue statement about Smart running up 10 rows to shove Orr.

In such an instance, it would be rather easy to prove that the reason you moved was not athletics. No need to feel sorry for them.

"Dad - I'm sick of playing for Suck High School - they are awful, scouts are never going to see me play."
"OK, son - go live with these people and you can change schools and play for a better team."

"Ah ... cool. I'm an athlete, I will be coddled and provided for - I can do whatever I want."

Athletic affluenza.

I don't really see what the problem is to provide kids the best opportunity to maximize their potential. If changing school means he gets into a better college, that makes him a better player that allows him to play in the NBA and make money, ISN'T THAT WHAT LIFES ABOUT?

This isn't coddling, its like you or I changing jobs because one sucks. Coddling would be the kid breaks the law and isn't punished. These stupid athletic laws are all political based and don't address the fundamental issue. Corruption and greed. Where the kid wants to play should not be the issue. Coaches, alumni, school districts providing illegal benefits that are not otherwise afforded other students, that's illegal. If a private school wants to give the kid free tuition, room and board, and a part time gig that pays well, that's on them.

The fact is that great athletes bring in the money and all these half-assed policies are set in place to protect ONE THING only. The institution. The athlete doesn't see a penny, and are used as the pawn in the bigger picture. That's my issue. That's what rubs me. If amateur sports were so altruistic then why are coaches of big programs at the high school and college level so well taken care of?

How can bigger programs afford amazing facilities and survive off the money that the sports bring in? These laws (and this covers the NCAA too) is only to protect the individual schools from making sure they can capitalize of an athlete and get as much cheese as they can before he/she moves on. It is not about "fairness" and "equality" its about M.O.N.E.Y.

Show me one adult who hates their job and a better alternative comes up and they don't take it because it isn't "fair". Why do life's rules not apply to athletics? Because it's all about the cheese and the athlete is the cheesemaker.

[/end rant]

This is a tough topic. Let's keep it civil.

And if you changed athletics to other activities or a kid said that to his dad about safety at a school, that is a problem? I know parents that send their kids from a public school to a private school because the private school has a track record to get kids to college outside of athletics. Again, I do not see why this is a bad situation if a family can afford the move or the tuition. I have always found that kind of thinking to be silly on so many levels. If the schools are not giving anything illegal or benefits they would have not gotten going to another school, then what the heck is the problem?

Peace

This is the problem. If families were moving in a vacuum to get more exposure, I wouldn't have too big of a problem with that. The problem is some coach or booster comes up and says, "hey kid. Are you tired of going to Suck High School? I'll pay for you to move, give your parents a cushy job, or some other such thing for you to come play for us." That's a problem, and from what I have read in this thread, that is where the Texas rule comes from.

For the record these kinds of rules are not unique to Texas. But not every move or transfer is done for these reasons. And even if the move is athletically motivated, I still do not see the big deal if the family made that decision for their kids.

Peace

A) Private schools do not fall under the jurisdiction of the rules we're discussing here.

B) Other activities? "Dad, the college cello playing scouts won't see me if we don't change schools"? "Dad, our math club sucks, can I move schools?" Um ... what the fungus are you referring to here? (As to safety - no, that's not a problem. The kid is not being entitled if he tells his parents he's afraid for his safety and wants to move. Completely different scenario).

Exactly. You don't see it. And unless you lived here when it was a problem, you won't see it.

Rut - you refer to urban situations in your area that I could never fathom, and would never have a chance of truly understanding. When you do, I take you at face value. I could NOT truly understand where you're coming from - I don't have the context for it.

You do not fathom the situation that has existed here - you don't have the context for it.

fify.

Maybe in Texas. Here public and private schools play for the State Titles.

So are you telling me that one school cannot have a better musical program or computer science program over another school? And a parent would not consider that when trying to get their kid into a better college?

I do not even have kids and that is a conversation I have had with parents that have choice to go to another school in the same school district.

Peace

Wasn't trying to troll, whatever that means. Is troll an insult?

I do admit that I don't know what seat the fan was sitting in but Smart did have to take 3 larger steps toward him to shove him after falling head long into the crowd to begin with. It wasn't like he just rolled over and shoved the guy. Maybe, I should have used a different form of measurement. And, I never accused Smart of playing the race card. I answered someone's question as to 'how could someone hear a racial slur wrong". Some people have been known to yell "racial slur" as a means to deflect their own poor judgement. Did Smart do this? Don't know. Never said he did? But, if the fan didn't use a racial slur then someone stating that he did deflects from Smart's actions. I believe at the time of the post there were reports that the fan used a racial slur. I don't even know if that is still being reported, now.

Again, just an opinion. Maybe different than your's. Wasn't really trying to pi$$ you off or change your opinion.

What I really want to know for high school purposes, is there not an FED interp that rules that a player assaulting a fan can be ejected for fighting?

Who said anything about "urban" whatever that is supposed to mean. I live in a suburban area and once lived in a rural part of my state. Parents would move a kid from one rural area to another if they felt they were helping their kids get a better opportunity. And it is often controversial here when a kid goes from a public school district to a private school and it is often assumed that the private school did something nefarious to get that athlete.

I know people from Texas think the world does not exist outside of that state, but things you are saying is a constant conversation here. Schools are just not spending millions to make a football stadium. But still the same basic issues come up here, I just have never understood why people feel it is wrong to move a kid if it benefits their chances at other opportunities.

Peace

I know that now thanks to Rich1 explaining the process. At first I was inferring that the system was pretty rigid.

You're right. You don't. And you won't. And that's ok.

No. I'm not telling you that. Why do you insist on stating that I'm telling you something and then disagree with what I didn't even say in the first place?

Smart should have followed Dalton's advise.
Sorry but I can't but to think of this with all of the "but he got called ____ " comments. Bottom line control yourself.

Warning for language in the video.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/nTh5JzRziHE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's Not Your Father's Neighborhood School Any More ...
 

Connecticut is moving more toward school choice. Magnet schools, charter schools, etc. Many kids no longer have to go to the high school that is geographically within their town, or city, borders, or in one geographic part of a city. We even have a school that specializes in sports, and medical, sciences. Kids can chose to go to this high school because they're interested on a career in sports, player, administrator, coach, agent, media, etc.

Funny how we "want" kids to have the best opportunity they can have, but NOT at the expense of what the people making the rules for "fairness" think it should be. I really hate some of the eligibility rules.

Not on high school sports … just high school football :)

A band director might be thrilled a quality trumpet or oboe player is moving into his district and will now attend his school. But he isn't going to be out there finding people that will pay for an apartment or pay for moving costs to get that kid to that district. Part of the rule is to keep parents from athletics over anything else but the other part is to prevent shady deals.

I know this happens everywhere and each state or other jurisdiction has their own rules to deal with it. And while I'm as big a proponent of school athletics as anyone who ever lived, if you find the rare case of a family moving a HS kid so he can be on a better debate squad, most (including me) would agree that that is a little more of a co-curricular activity than sports. In addition, the UIL (in Texas, obviously) doesn't have jurisdiction over all activities. Even those they do have, like debate, are ignored since being disqualified from the UIL tournament means nothing to debate students who compete under totally different organizations. Sort of like select athletic teams, but that's getting into a whole other can of worms.

Apples vs oranges
 

While I realize there are competitions, a band director does not have a W-L record and is probably not going to lose his job if the best oboe player from the next county over doesn't make it to town to "play" for him.

And you can always add an extra trumpet / oboe to the band. If you get a new point guard / quarterback, then someone has to sit and someone else doesn't make the team.

Good point..prob more important than mine:D

I don’t understand why on this forum people are debating about whether or not a athlete moving to a different school is legal or illegal. I'm not out on the floor wondering if the athletes that are playing have made a legal or illegal move from one school to another. The only legal or illegal move I am going to judge them on will be within the rules of the game of basketball.

Yeah, this thread's gone in a different direction...unless the TT fan called Marcus Smart "you piece of $#%%$$# transfer":D

Have we all had enough fun? I think so.