help me understand this foul

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

...
So while it's true not all falls are created equal, and some can be let go, they can be bad and therefore prevented through proper officiating...

Proper officiating doesn't prevent falls or injuries. All it can do is penalize the illegal acts that led to those events.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Proper officiating doesn't prevent falls or injuries. All it can do is penalize the illegal acts that led to those events.

This is a more succinct and better way of stating what my last post tried to say.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Proper officiating doesn't prevent falls or injuries. All it can do is penalize the illegal acts that led to those events.

And if you penalize those illegal acts, like this trip, then you prevent other players/shooters from doing it. So in this case proper officiating won't directly prevent injuries, it can help prevent future injury.

This all goes back to saying the trip was incidental, and the fact that just because the contact is incidental doesn't mean it's not a foul. If you want to debate whether this is a foul... fine. But saying it's not a foul because the contact was incidental is wrong.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

And if you penalize those illegal acts, like this trip, then you prevent other players/shooters from doing it. So in this case proper officiating won't directly prevent injuries, it can help prevent future injury.

This all goes back to saying the trip was incidental, and the fact that just because the contact is incidental doesn't mean it's not a foul. If you want to debate whether this is a foul... fine. But saying it's not a foul because the contact was incidental is wrong.

I think you are confusing incidental with minimal. Incidental contact is by definition not a foul. Minimal contact may or may not be a foul.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I think you are confusing incidental with minimal. Incidental contact is by definition not a foul. Minimal contact may or may not be a foul.

One definition of "incidental" is that something is liable to happen as a consequence of an activity. The intent of the activity is not to trip or foul the defender, but that is indeed what happens.

So the question is... is it legal for the shooter to kick his feet out like he did?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

One definition of "incidental" is that something is liable to happen as a consequence of an activity.

Maybe, but here we would tend to use the rules book definition so as not to cause confusion.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Maybe, but here we would tend to use the rules book definition so as not to cause confusion.

You're right.

The defender jumping into that space can be considered a normal defensive movement. If the defender jumped into space that the shooter had legally occupied, then a foul on the shooter can not be called. But that's not the case. Therefore I see that the contact was caused because of the shooter kicking his feet out into that space, and such contact tripped the defender.

The fact the defender could have gotten injured should not be a factor... that is right. But the trip is an illegal act, and penalizing it can help prevent something like this happening again in the future. And a possible future trip may not end as well. Hence... preventing injury.