I don't understand

[fwump]

Let me clarify that I was spectator at this game. HS Varsity district game. Cross town rivalry. BIG GAME. R1 1 out. Ground ball to F4 who breaks in to field it. R1, F4 and ball meet in the baseline. F4 fields ball cleanly just as R2 crashes into him, or I should describe it as trying to vault over him. F4 tags R1, who is rolling over the top of him, and completes a decent throw to F3 too late to retire BR.

Both umpires are obviously veterans based on thier age and appearance and the fact that this is a 5A district game between two heated rivalries. Why no interference call? And why, when R1, who became livid after being called out by BU and threw his helmet across the infield, was he not ejected. Why was'nt the double play called subsequent to the interference. These are all calls that I have made myself. And I call almost exclusively youth baseball. HMMM.

My point is that there are LL umpires(to use the negative connatation often propagated on this and other sites) at all levels of baseball. Including BIG BOY baseball. Even the guys who get the big games.

The level of baseball doen'nt matter guys. Its how you call the game!

Mike

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by fwump
Let me clarify that I was spectator at this game. HS Varsity district game. Cross town rivalry. BIG GAME. R1 1 out. Ground ball to F4 who breaks in to field it. R1, F4 and ball meet in the baseline. F4 fields ball cleanly just as R2 crashes into him, or I should describe it as trying to vault over him. F4 tags R1, who is rolling over the top of him, and completes a decent throw to F3 too late to retire BR.

Both umpires are obviously veterans based on thier age and appearance and the fact that this is a 5A district game between two heated rivalries. Why no interference call? And why, when R1, who became livid after being called out by BU and threw his helmet across the infield, was he not ejected. Why was'nt the double play called subsequent to the interference. These are all calls that I have made myself. And I call almost exclusively youth baseball. HMMM.

My point is that there are LL umpires(to use the negative connatation often propagated on this and other sites) at all levels of baseball. Including BIG BOY baseball. Even the guys who get the big games.

The level of baseball doen'nt matter guys. Its how you call the game!

Mike

Of course I was not there and cannot explain anything to you about why the umpires did what they did. It is not required to rule a double play in FED rules. A double play can only be called if the interference prevented a double play. If a double play was not prevented, then the umpires got it correct. I have no idea what the LL rules are, but they might not apply here.

It does matter what level you are working. The mentality at the LL level, does not translate to the HS level or the college level. HS games do not have the same feel as college games. So they way you call the game can be affected by what level you are working.

Peace

[jicecone]

Originally posted by fwump
Let me clarify that I was spectator at this game. HS Varsity district game. Cross town rivalry. BIG GAME. R1 1 out. Ground ball to F4 who breaks in to field it. R1, F4 and ball meet in the baseline. F4 fields ball cleanly just as R2 crashes into him, or I should describe it as trying to vault over him. F4 tags R1, who is rolling over the top of him, and completes a decent throw to F3 too late to retire BR.

Both umpires are obviously veterans based on thier age and appearance and the fact that this is a 5A district game between two heated rivalries. Why no interference call? And why, when R1, who became livid after being called out by BU and threw his helmet across the infield, was he not ejected. Why was'nt the double play called subsequent to the interference. These are all calls that I have made myself. And I call almost exclusively youth baseball. HMMM.

My point is that there are LL umpires(to use the negative connatation often propagated on this and other sites) at all levels of baseball. Including BIG BOY baseball. Even the guys who get the big games.

The level of baseball doen'nt matter guys. Its how you call the game!

Mike

1. Don't assume age has anything to do with experience or ability. I worked with a new official 4 years older than me. I'm 55.

2. Why did'nt you go ask the officials after the game? im sure had you approached them as a new official wanting to learn, you would have found out a lot more.

3. It seems that for many, it is easier to find fault and be critical than to find good and be praiseworthy.

4. Well, I guess it is time for you to step up to the plate and work on getting some of those Big Games. Hell, from what you have already described your probably already are qualified.

[tmp44]

Originally posted by fwump
Let me clarify that I was spectator at this game. HS Varsity district game. Cross town rivalry. BIG GAME. R1 1 out. Ground ball to F4 who breaks in to field it. R1, F4 and ball meet in the baseline. F4 fields ball cleanly just as R2 crashes into him, or I should describe it as trying to vault over him. F4 tags R1, who is rolling over the top of him, and completes a decent throw to F3 too late to retire BR.

Both umpires are obviously veterans based on thier age and appearance and the fact that this is a 5A district game between two heated rivalries. Why no interference call? And why, when R1, who became livid after being called out by BU and threw his helmet across the infield, was he not ejected. Why was'nt the double play called subsequent to the interference. These are all calls that I have made myself. And I call almost exclusively youth baseball. HMMM.

My point is that there are LL umpires(to use the negative connatation often propagated on this and other sites) at all levels of baseball. Including BIG BOY baseball. Even the guys who get the big games.

The level of baseball doen'nt matter guys. Its how you call the game!

Mike

I know I'm going to get some flack over this but so be it...it's time something was said. Why has this forum turned into a fight between umpires who think they know everything? 75% of the threads on here are extremely useful to many of us in knowing how to interpret rules and situations. What is absolutely ridiculous is when people don't appreciate the way someone posted against their ruling or how they handled something and then starts personal attacks. THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS FORUM IS FOR. IF YOU CAN'T TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF CRITICISM, THEN DON'T POST ON HERE ANYMORE.

Take the above post as an example. Fwump, what makes you think that you have the right to criticize the umpires in the sitch that you described when you said it yourself that you "call almost exclusively youth baseball." Guess what, come July and August, that's what just about every umpire on this forum does, calls youth baseball. Instead, why not ask the experienced umps on here (i.e. JRut, Tee, Carl Childress, etc.) the possible reasons for the double play and ejections not occurring? Do you really feel that it was necessary to instead bash the "big ball" umpires who were on the field instead? Did you ever think that there are different rules governing FED ball and LL ball or PONY ball?

But then here I go doing the same thing that I am preaching to everyone else not to do so I'll just stop. I just hope that my point was made and we can get back to helping and teaching the younger and less experienced officials (like myself) the proper way to officiate a sporting event, rather than bashing everyone on here.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by fwump
Both umpires are obviously veterans based on thier age and appearance and the fact that this is a 5A district game between two heated rivalries.

You are very wrong to assume that. I see guys in their 60's working Freshman B games.

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by LDUB

You are very wrong to assume that. I see guys in their 60's working Freshman B games.

Gotta agree here.

Very easy to be a big boy umpire, anyone can do it.. hell even I do it... when I'm not busy with a fast n furious game like girlie softball. But $$$ talks and BS like game speed and fun of the game walks. Travel League OBR little ball pays the best, more than Fed Varsity in many cases.. so gotta go with that over most games if possible, including softball. Unbelievable how much is paid for each game. I made more on a double header 14U OBR than I would in 4 rec league softball games.

[fwump]

OK

I will ask. If you as BU saw this play as I described, would you:

A. call interference, under FED 8-4-2c. Ring up the BR and eject R1 for throwing equipment.

B. call runner out on the tag by F4 and consider the contact incidental. Ignore the tirade and tossed equipment.

I guess I am manifesting an inferioriy complex here. I have been intending to join the local organization of officials that is sanctioned to do all Texas UIL games. But I have not because I don't feel that I have the experience as yet. But now my son is playing HS ball now and I have seen some very mediocre officiating in alot of these games.

These forums are very informative and I learn much from the likes of Tee, Garthb, Carl, RBS and numerous others. I just dont't feel we should categorize umpires by the level of baseball that they officiate. I guess my post came off a bit too sarcastic and probably as umpire bashing. That was not my intent.

I have been intimidated by the "BIG DOGS" (not my nomenclature)on these sites and also the ones I know personally. No more. I am as capable as they are.

Mike

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by fwump
OK

I will ask. If you as BU saw this play as I described, would you:

A. call interference, under FED 8-4-2c. Ring up the BR and eject R1 for throwing equipment.

B. call runner out on the tag by F4 and consider the contact incidental. Ignore the tirade and tossed equipment.

I guess I am manifesting an inferioriy complex here. I have been intending to join the local organization of officials that is sanctioned to do all Texas UIL games. But I have not because I don't feel that I have the experience as yet. But now my son is playing HS ball now and I have seen some very mediocre officiating in alot of these games.

These forums are very informative and I learn much from the likes of Tee, Garthb, Carl, RBS and numerous others. I just dont't feel we should categorize umpires by the level of baseball that they officiate. I guess my post came off a bit too sarcastic and probably as umpire bashing. That was not my intent.

I have been intimidated by the "BIG DOGS" (not my nomenclature)on these sites and also the ones I know personally. No more. I am as capable as they are.

Mike

I learn from them too but the inadequate ones who feed their ego by degrading others dont intimidate me in the slightest.

This is obviously textbook INT. Probably HTBT for double play and I would say 99% chance of a toss on the tantrum.

They blew the call.. not really a big deal IMO. It happens. They are only fed umpires, probably went to a four hour clinic at most.. not like they are MLB or something. The BU wasnt wearing a fanny pack by any chance was he?

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by fwump
OK

I will ask. If you as BU saw this play as I described, would you:

A. call interference, under FED 8-4-2c. Ring up the BR and eject R1 for throwing equipment.

B. call runner out on the tag by F4 and consider the contact incidental. Ignore the tirade and tossed equipment.

...

I have been intimidated by the "BIG DOGS" (not my nomenclature)on these sites and also the ones I know personally. No more. I am as capable as they are.

Mike

If I had seen what you have explained, I would have been in the category "A" answer.

But, perhaps the BU saw something slightly different. Maybe he saw a stumble/fumble by F4 before the tag attempt (I don't know - HTBT). Perhaps he didn't feel there was substantial enough contact to prevent the double play (Again, I don't know - HTBT). Tossing equipment, I've passed on that before (incorrectly, I might add). I've also ejected for it too - it seems easier to hold children accountable for their actions than a top notch high school player. Ejection of the HS player might mean the difference in a trip to State tournament or something - not that childish acts should be condoned but it makes an umpire stop and think... and then it might feel like it is too late to make the ejection call.

Now that last statement you made is out-of-line, or at least a bit of a stretch. Yes, there is no reason for you to be intimidated... but equally capable... I guess HTBT.