help me understand this foul

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I agree a leg kick should not be rewarded with FTs, and could be called offensive if blatent, but this one just looks like a bad call. The leg motion doesn't appear to be anything more than a typical shooting motion. And even if you did rule it to be intentional, how is that contact more than incidental?

Because it tripped the defender. I didn't see his leg kicked out, but his entire body is at an intentionally awkward angle, which makes it look less blatant. It seemed obvious to me that he was trying to draw contact, and succeeded in tripping the defender.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by Adam

Because it tripped the defender. I didn't see his leg kicked out, but his entire body is at an intentionally awkward angle, which makes it look less blatant. It seemed obvious to me that he was trying to draw contact, and succeeded in tripping the defender.

Agree to disagree.I see a defender that is off balance and coming toward the shooter that makes incidental contact with the shooter who is making a normal shooting motion.

[shagpal]

okay, as a fan, not an official (I work diamond sports), I see the same.

like a charge call or block, how can a shooter be guilty if the defender comes flying into the shooters space? the shooter is not kicking out. the shooter is fading away to get off a clean shot. the if the defender wants to block that shot, I think the onus should be on the defender to make it clean vertical jump, not the shooter. the defender was flying into the shot and tangled with the shooters feet. the shooter established that space first.

am I off on my philosophy or not seeing the video correctly?

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Agree to disagree.I see a defender that is off balance and coming toward the shooter that makes incidental contact with the shooter who is making a normal shooting motion.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by shagpal

okay, as a fan, not an official (I work diamond sports), I see the same.

like a charge call or block, how can a shooter be guilty if the defender comes flying into the shooters space? the shooter is not kicking out. the shooter is fading away to get off a clean shot. the if the defender wants to block that shot, I think the onus should be on the defender to make it clean vertical jump, not the shooter. the defender was flying into the shot and tangled with the shooters feet. the shooter established that space first.

am I off on my philosophy or not seeing the video correctly?

Not seeing correctly. The shooter stuck his leg forward into the path of the defender that would have missed everything otherwise....and the last part is what makes the difference.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by shagpal

... how can a shooter be guilty if the defender comes flying into the shooters space?...

That wasn't the shooter's space.

[shagpal]

whoz space was it? was it the defenders space?

Originally Posted by BryanV21

That wasn't the shooter's space.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by shagpal

whoz space was it? was it the defenders space?

Why do you think the offense is more entitled to that space than the defense?

[ballgame99]

Regardless of who was in who's space, the contact was incidental and should have been a no call. As much contact as gets allowed in the game today and we call it incidental, you are going to call an offensive foul because a shooters foot hits a defender's leg? Come on.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by shagpal

whoz space was it? was it the defenders space?

At the time of the shot, the space belongs to nobody. Therefore it is perfectly legal for the defender to jump there.

However, by kicking his feet into that space, the shooter is hindering the defender's ability to make a normal and legal move.

I like to think of a player's "space" this way...

At that player's spot, imagine if they are in a tube. Like the ones participants in the Hunger Games are in before entering the arena (did I just out myself as a nerd?). The player can move up and down in that space all they want, and they are legal. But, if a player reaches out beyond that tube, then we have a problem. And that goes for the offense or defense.

If the player moves to that spot first, meaning actually stepping there and not just reaching there with an arm or leg, then he/she is all good.