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-   -   Block/Charge thoughts (video) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97138-block-charge-thoughts-video.html)

JetMetFan Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:57am

Block/Charge thoughts (video)
 
As I watched this play two questions came to mind (I know, he's thinking again)...

1. Did the defender do anything wrong?
2. Do we default to "block" when we see a ball handler/dribbler/airborne shooter make contact that isn't directly on the defender's torso?


<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/EUd-eTekj6w?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

bainsey Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:17am

No and no.

SWMOzebra Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:22am

Ouch. Defender did everything correctly and still gets penalized.

bob jenkins Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 920241)
As I watched this play two questions came to mind (I know, he's thinking again)...

1. Did the defender do anything wrong?
2. Do we default to "block" when we see a ball handler/dribbler/airborne shooter make contact that isn't directly on the defender's torso?

2. Do we? yes. Should we? No -- I think this was one of the major points made last season on B/C plays.

Raymond Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 920241)
As I watched this play two questions came to mind (I know, he's thinking again)...

1. Did the defender do anything wrong?
2. Do we default to "block" when we see a ball handler/dribbler/airborne shooter make contact that isn't directly on the defender's torso?
...

3. How come Lead didn't have first crack?

I have a PC on this play. Last season on the NCAA-M's side, it was emphasized that contact does not have to be directly to the torso.

BryanV21 Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 920261)
And...
3. How come Lead didn't have first crack?

I have a PC on this play. Last season on the NCAA-M's side, it was emphasized that contact does not have to be directly to the torso.

Looks like the dribbler is coming from the C's side of the court, and seeing as how it's the primary defender who's involved in the block/charge, then it would be the C's call. I mean, if the dribbler got around the primary defender and a secondary defender was involved in the block/charge, then the L should make the call.

Not that the L can't make a call, but I see no problem with the L deferring to the C here.

Raymond Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 920263)
Looks like the dribbler is coming from the C's side of the court, and seeing as how it's the primary defender who's involved in the block/charge, then it would be the C's call. I mean, if the dribbler got around the primary defender and a secondary defender was involved in the block/charge, then the L should make the call.

Not that the L can't make a call, but I see no problem with the L deferring to the C here.

Depends on the definition of "secondary defender". On the Men's side, all outnumbered defensive players on a fast break are secondary defenders. I don't know how NCAA-W handle it.

That's why I'm asking #3.

Rich Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:38am

The L seems to still be getting to the end line. Could he feel he doesn't have a good enough look?

SWMOzebra Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 920265)
Depends on the definition of "secondary defender". On the Men's side, all outnumbered defensive players on a fast break are secondary defenders. I don't know how NCAA-W handle it.

We use the same definition. A double whistle would have been ideal here, but as the drive is from Cs primary it's his call.

walt Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:50am

This is a PC. At one of my camps last year the clinicians covered #2 and talked about how a lot of officials think (wrongly) that contact for a PC has to be center torso. They showed a bunch of clips similar to this one and the general consensus was practically all of them should have been PC but were called blocks. I also agree a double whistle would have been good here but it is C's primary.

j51969 Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 920261)
3. How come Lead didn't have first crack?

I have a PC on this play. Last season on the NCAA-M's side, it was emphasized that contact does not have to be directly to the torso.

For me from the video the L is still getting in position, and C looks to have the best look anyway. But I think he missed it as well.

johnny d Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra (Post 920271)
We use the same definition. A double whistle would have been ideal here, but as the drive is from Cs primary it's his call.


If you consider this a secondary defender, than in NCAA-M, the L gets first crack.

johnny d Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 920265)
Depends on the definition of "secondary defender". On the Men's side, all outnumbered defensive players on a fast break are secondary defenders. I don't know how NCAA-W handle it.

That's why I'm asking #3.


I don't think this is an odd numbered fast break situation. Looks like 2 on 2 to me. Therefore, I am not sure I would classify the defender as a secondary defender. I think the L did a poor job of getting back to the end line and is out of position/straight lined and didn't have a good look. It should be a PC foul.

j51969 Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 920291)
i don't think this is an odd numbered fast break situation. Looks like 2 on 2 to me. Therefore, i am not sure i would classify the defender as a secondary defender. i think the l did a poor job of getting back to the end line and is out of position/straight lined and didn't have a good look. It should be a pc foul.

+1

Rich Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by j51969 (Post 920293)
+1

Just doesn't look like he busted his hump to get there, does it?


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