When is a tap a tap

[Jesse James]

I know this may be a third-world play, but that's what you invite with the hard-and-fast 0:00.3 rule.

If a player was to "volleyball bump" the ball into the bucket, I'm guessing it's considered a tap if it contacts any part of the hands, but not if it's higher up on the forearms?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

I know this may be a third-world play, but that's what you invite with the hard-and-fast 0:00.3 rule.

If a player was to "volleyball bump" the ball into the bucket, I'm guessing it's considered a tap if it contacts any part of the hands, but not if it's higher up on the forearms?

Why? It is all about the length of the contact. Catch, no shot. No-catch, one touch, tap.

[BryanV21]

It's like pornography... I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

[Adam]

Probably a bit circular, but I like to consider this in terms of whether I'd grant a timeout if requested. If there's even the slightest moment of control, or 'holding' the ball, it's a catch.

Still could be hard to tell in some cases, though.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

I know this may be a third-world play, but that's what you invite with the hard-and-fast 0:00.3 rule.

If a player was to "volleyball bump" the ball into the bucket, I'm guessing it's considered a tap if it contacts any part of the hands, but not if it's higher up on the forearms?

The area on the arms / hands the ball contacts is not a consideration.

Even on a tap, the ball still must be released before the horn (assuming the clock starts properly, etc.).

[Jesse James]

So, if this is off her forearms before the horn, and goes in the bucket after the horn, it's a good bucket.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

So, if this is off her forearms before the horn, and goes in the bucket after the horn, it's a good bucket.

If you judge it to be a try, then yes.

(No one would really do this, so that's why 4-41-5 says "hands")

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

(No one would really do this, so that's why 4-41-5 says "hands")

While I've never seen it--at that point--if it can count as a hoop, it's a better option than catch-and-shoot.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

While I've never seen it--at that point--if it can count as a hoop, it's a better option than catch-and-shoot.

If she doesn't catch it, it's a tap. The rule simply says it can't be caught, so that's all you need to judge.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If you judge it to be a try, then yes.

(No one would really do this, so that's why 4-41-5 says "hands")

In all seriousness, would anyone consider this a try?

I mentioned the prohibition against using a fist to punch the ball, and with 4-41-5 refering to "hands", I would have a hard time finding a justification for calling this a try and allowing the ball to remain live after the horn.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

In all seriousness, would anyone consider this a try?

If the player is "attempting to score" then I'm considering it a try.

As I said before, as a practical matter, it's not going to happen. If there's only .3 left, then the ball will be thrown and contacted up high. If there's more than .3 left, then the player will attempt to catch the ball as opposed to "bumping" the ball.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the player is "attempting to score" then I'm considering it a try.

As I said before, as a practical matter, it's not going to happen. If there's only .3 left, then the ball will be thrown and contacted up high. If there's more than .3 left, then the player will attempt to catch the ball as opposed to "bumping" the ball.

May be impractical, (although I've seen discussion of more far-fetched scenarios here), but it could come into play at the end of a game in terms of whether or not the ball is dead on the horn or whether or not the ball remains live during the try for goal.

Do you draw the line anywhere in terms of what body part is used to "attempt to score". If the volleyball forearm bump could be considered an attempt to score, then it seems like you are including "arms" as a body part that could be
considered acceptable for a "tap" in an attempt to score.
What about a soccer style "header" an attempt to score?

I'm inclined to stick with the strict interpretation of the definition of a tap that required "hands". But I was curious what others think.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

If a player was to "volleyball bump" the ball into the bucket, I'm guessing it's considered a tap if it contacts any part of the hands, but not if it's higher up on the forearms?

There is this (9-4):
"A player shall not travel with the ball ... strike it with the fist or cause it to enter or pass through the basket from below"

I'm not seeing anything about forearms.