When is a tap a tap

[Jesse James]

So, if this is off her forearms before the horn, and goes in the bucket after the horn, it's a good bucket.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

So, if this is off her forearms before the horn, and goes in the bucket after the horn, it's a good bucket.

If you judge it to be a try, then yes.

(No one would really do this, so that's why 4-41-5 says "hands")

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

(No one would really do this, so that's why 4-41-5 says "hands")

While I've never seen it--at that point--if it can count as a hoop, it's a better option than catch-and-shoot.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

While I've never seen it--at that point--if it can count as a hoop, it's a better option than catch-and-shoot.

If she doesn't catch it, it's a tap. The rule simply says it can't be caught, so that's all you need to judge.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If you judge it to be a try, then yes.

(No one would really do this, so that's why 4-41-5 says "hands")

In all seriousness, would anyone consider this a try?

I mentioned the prohibition against using a fist to punch the ball, and with 4-41-5 refering to "hands", I would have a hard time finding a justification for calling this a try and allowing the ball to remain live after the horn.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

In all seriousness, would anyone consider this a try?

If the player is "attempting to score" then I'm considering it a try.

As I said before, as a practical matter, it's not going to happen. If there's only .3 left, then the ball will be thrown and contacted up high. If there's more than .3 left, then the player will attempt to catch the ball as opposed to "bumping" the ball.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the player is "attempting to score" then I'm considering it a try.

As I said before, as a practical matter, it's not going to happen. If there's only .3 left, then the ball will be thrown and contacted up high. If there's more than .3 left, then the player will attempt to catch the ball as opposed to "bumping" the ball.

May be impractical, (although I've seen discussion of more far-fetched scenarios here), but it could come into play at the end of a game in terms of whether or not the ball is dead on the horn or whether or not the ball remains live during the try for goal.

Do you draw the line anywhere in terms of what body part is used to "attempt to score". If the volleyball forearm bump could be considered an attempt to score, then it seems like you are including "arms" as a body part that could be
considered acceptable for a "tap" in an attempt to score.
What about a soccer style "header" an attempt to score?

I'm inclined to stick with the strict interpretation of the definition of a tap that required "hands". But I was curious what others think.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

May be impractical, (although I've seen discussion of more far-fetched scenarios here), but it could come into play at the end of a game in terms of whether or not the ball is dead on the horn or whether or not the ball remains live during the try for goal.

Do you draw the line anywhere in terms of what body part is used to "attempt to score". If the volleyball forearm bump could be considered an attempt to score, then it seems like you are including "arms" as a body part that could be
considered acceptable for a "tap" in an attempt to score.
What about a soccer style "header" an attempt to score?

I'm inclined to stick with the strict interpretation of the definition of a tap that required "hands". But I was curious what others think.

I would include arms. I would include head. If I thought it was an attempt to direct the ball toward the basket, on purpose, it's a try.

[RulesGeek]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I would include arms. I would include head. If I thought it was an attempt to direct the ball toward the basket, on purpose, it's a try.

The rule defines a tap as contacting the ball with "hand(s)." So if it hits the forarms or head, it is not a tap and the ball is dead on the horn. However, if the player strikes the ball with the HANDS held together in "volleyball bump position" that is a tap, and the goal counts even after the horn.

I've actually wondered before why I've never heard of a team trying a "volleyball shot" when down by 3 with 0.3 or less on the clock. I've especially wondered it at the HS/NCAA women levels where it is likely that there is at least one experienced volleyball player on the squad. Sure its an unlikely shot.... but with a skilled volleyballer I think the odds are better than a lob into the paint-made tap-foul combination.