Ft, "t"

[Terrapins Fan]

I called a foul on a player, 2 shots, I went to the table to report it. As I am doing so, the coach of the offending team, asks for an explanation.

Players line up and my partner begins the first FT. I explain to the coach that his player hit the arm of the shooter. Coach says, " I demand an explanation" I say, " I just gave you the explanation"

I turn to see the shooter begin his shooting motion and the coach yells " That's a bunch of crap" I turn to the coach blow my whistle and "T" him up, turn back and see the FT in the air. Shot misses, but since I blew as the kid was beginning his motion, I called the shot off and gave him 2 again.

Yes, I should have held my whistle until after the first FT, but emotion got the best of me.

Should I have give the FT shooter the first shot over again? I don't believe that the ball had left his hand when I blew.

[Nevadaref]

Read the definition of continuous motion.

[deecee]

if the coach was loud enough - disconcertion is your catch-all.

Other than that lesson learned .

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I called a foul on a player, 2 shots, I went to the table to report it. As I am doing so, the coach of the offending team, asks for an explanation.

Players line up and my partner begins the first FT. I explain to the coach that his player hit the arm of the shooter. Coach says, "I demand an explanation" I say, " I just gave you the explanation"

I turn to see the shooter begin his shooting motion and the coach yells " That's a bunch of crap" I turn to the coach blow my whistle and "T" him up, turn back and see the FT in the air. Shot misses, but since I blew as the kid was beginning his motion, I called the shot off and gave him 2 again.

Yes, I should have held my whistle until after the first FT, but emotion got the best of me.

Should I have give the FT shooter the first shot over again? I don't believe that the ball had left his hand when I blew.

Any time a HC demands anything he gets whacked.

If you had your back to the players and your partner because you were talking with the HC, why is your partner administering free throws without you in position?

MTD, Sr.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Any time a HC demands anything he gets whacked.

If you had your back to the players and your partner because you were talking with the HC, why is your partner administering free throws without you in position?

MTD, Sr.

I tell coaches before the game that if they have any questions then feel free to ask. However, just as I will show them respect, I ask that they do the same for me.

In this case making demands is not respect, and therefore I would have ignored him. If he says another thing that could be construed by even the most thin-skinned referee to be disrespectful, then I whack him.

At that point I'm sure he'll want to know why, and I'd let him know that demanding an explanation from me is disrespectful, therefore he was ignored. Continuing in such a way led to the "t".

BTW, MTD is right... why would your partner administer the free throw while you weren't looking? Take note from that bit of the situation.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

BTW, MTD is right... why would your partner administer the free throw while you weren't looking? Take note from that bit of the situation.

If it's the first of two or three free throws...especially working with 3, then I don't see the issue. If it's a 1 and 1 or we're on the final FT...yeah, get in position partner.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by APG

If it's the first of two or three free throws...especially working with 3, then I don't see the issue. If it's a 1 and 1 or we're on the final FT...yeah, get in position partner.

Terrapins fan just brought up a good reason not to administer a free throw until all officials are looking. So I don't understand being against it. Not unless you think awkward situations are fun to deal with.

[Adam]

I don't talk to the coach nearly that much, either before or during the game.

If I T a coach for something he says, he knows what it was for: whether he admits it or not.

As for shooting while I'm talking to the coach. I don't have a huge issue with it. Then again, I'm not turning my back on the court to explain a run of the mill shooting foul, either.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Terrapins fan just brought up a good reason not to administer a free throw until all officials are looking. So I don't understand being against it. Not unless you think awkward situations are fun to deal with.

The coach is going to want an explanation...I'm not going to hold up the first of two or the 2nd of 3 while my partner is talking to the coach and out of perfect position. Get whatever you need to sayexplain during that period...get to your position in time for the final shot.

As to the OP, that's just a matter of needing to be a little more patient when giving out the T...unlike a personal foul, there's no need to call the T right away. Live and you learn...we've ball been there before.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Should I have give the FT shooter the first shot over again? I don't believe that the ball had left his hand when I blew.

Continuous motion applies to personal fouls committed by the defense.

If you blew the whistle before he released the ball, then the ball is dead. He still has two FTs coming.

EDIT: This could also apply to an unsporting T on a player if you called it during continuous motion but it does not apply to a coach.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Continuous motion applies to personal fouls committed by the defense. If you blew the whistle before he released the ball, then the ball is dead. He still has two FTs coming.

Agree, but let's go to the rule, which includes the word "player", an important point in this situation:

"... but it (continuous motion) has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight."

Of course, the coach is not a player, and he most certainly is not a player playing defense (didn't that cost Woody Hayes his job?).

[BktBallRef]

Thanks BillyMac for that distinction in this situation that had absolutely nothing to do with a foul by a player.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Thanks BillyMac for that distinction in this situation that had absolutely nothing to do with a foul by a player.

I was just "over" confirming your 100% spot on, correct post. I'm sure that some Forum members, especially nonofficials, may have, just for a second, incorrectly thought that the continuous motion foul would not have made the ball dead while he was in the habitual motion of shooting the free throw. I'm not embarrassed to say I had to give it a second thought before I made my decision. Maybe I was the only one, but I probably wasn't? So now it's confirmed, a foul on a coach, or a substitute, or a team member on the bench, is not included in the continuous motion rule. The continuous motion rule only applies to a defensive player, not a nonplayer (there are only ten players), and not a player on offense. Exactly what's wrong with looking deeper into the rule, getting a more general interpretation of that rule, and with seeing the actual written rule, even when one is agreeing with the poster? Excuse me for being thorough.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was just "over" confirming your 100% spot on, correct post. I'm sure that some Forum members, especially nonofficials, may have, just for a second, incorrectly thought that the continuous motion foul would not have made the ball dead while he was in the habitual motion of shooting the free throw. I'm not embarrassed to say I had to give it a second thought before I made my decision. Maybe I was the only one, but I probably (hopefully) wasn't?

So when your partner calls traveling in a game, do you confirm the call for the fans by also signalling traveling?