Wisconsin vs Iowa

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Please, elaborate - written references, philosophical references, application of rules. (I'm doing even more mentoring of newer officials this season, and will appreciate insight on expressing that concept.)

It's an NCAA concept and might not apply to NFHS (depending on your state).

You can get some of this from the NCAA (W, at least) arbiter site, if you belong.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's an NCAA concept and might not apply to NFHS (depending on your state).

You can get some of this from the NCAA (W, at least) arbiter site, if you belong.

Thanks, Bob. The concept is understandable, and I probably won't present it, in depth, to most of the newer officials I'm mentoring. As with so many things, the presentation of the concept and the application are of utmost interest.

[KCRC]

Iowa fan here. I was embarrassed by our coach last night. No excuse for his actions. Hopefully he'll learn from this and conduct himself with much better composure in the future.

Regarding post defense being discussed in this thread, can anyone post video of the foul immediately prior to the media timeout before the coach's meltdown. Just under 12 minutes in the second half I believe. Would anyone consider a player control foul for displacing the defender? If not, would the defender be within the rules to be more aggressive in "holding his ground"? Is holding his ground the back to the basket post defense that JetMetFan is referring to?

Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by KCRC

Regarding post defense being discussed in this thread, can anyone post video of the foul immediately prior to the media timeout before the coach's meltdown. Just under 12 minutes in the second half I believe. Would anyone consider a player control foul for displacing the defender? If not, would the defender be within the rules to be more aggressive in "holding his ground"? Is holding his ground the back to the basket post defense that JetMetFan is referring to?

Isn't that the play at the beginning of the video? If yes, that is not a displacement foul.

[KCRC]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Isn't that the play at the beginning of the video? If yes, that is not a displacement foul.

So 4 or 5 feet of backward movement on 2 separate dribbles is not displacement? If not, what qualifies as displacement?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by KCRC

So 4 or 5 feet of backward movement on 2 separate dribbles is not displacement? If not, what qualifies as displacement?

I didn't see the play, but ...

The official must decide if the defense is giving way, or is being displaced. It's a tough decision while on the court.

edit: I went back and found the video. I agree with Arem, from the camera angle.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by KCRC

So 4 or 5 feet of backward movement on 2 separate dribbles is not displacement? If not, what qualifies as displacement?

The latest You Make the Call NCAA-Men's video has an example of post displacement, this play is nowhere close. The defender gave up ground pretty willingly.

Secondly, it wouldn't have hurt my feelings if that assistant coach joined the HC in the locker room.

[tjones1]

Big Ten suspends Iowa coach Fran McCaffery for one game - CBSSports.com

1 game? Seems low.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Thanks, Bob. The concept is understandable, and I probably won't present it, in depth, to most of the newer officials I'm mentoring. As with so many things, the presentation of the concept and the application are of utmost interest.

Well, the rules are not so much different as is the application of the rules.

It takes a lot more contact to have an effect (advantage/disadvantage, RSBQ, RIDD, etc.) on a short jumper than it does on a long range shot or on a post move vs. perimeter movement.

[blindzebra]

The reason he went off was the Iowa possession prior to the foul the Iowa shooter in the paint had the defender go through him to block a shot and appeared to hit him in the head.

There were about 3 or 4 other plays early in the second half that also were extremely inconsistently called.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Well, the rules are not so much different as is the application of the rules.

It takes a lot more contact to have an effect (advantage/disadvantage, RSBQ, RIDD, etc.) on a short jumper than it does on a long range shot or on a post move vs. perimeter movement.

Thanks, Camron. This is an area with which many newer officials seem to struggle. And the simple "advantage/disadvantage" statement seems inadequate, when I'm talking to them.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Thanks, Camron. This is an area with which many newer officials seem to struggle. And the simple "advantage/disadvantage" statement seems inadequate, when I'm talking to them.

Newer officials are going to struggle with this, there's no skipping that part of the development.


First stage: Freeze and forget to blow your whistle.
Second stage: Call everything you see, all contact is a foul.
Third stage: Discover advantage/disadvantage, but let way too many fouls go uncalled.
Fourth stage: Start to develop an equilibrium on what you call.

The time spent in each stage varies, but I think they're almost universal.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Adam

Newer officials are going to struggle with this, there's no skipping that part of the development.


First stage: Freeze and forget to blow your whistle.
Second stage: Call everything you see, all contact is a foul.
Third stage: Discover advantage/disadvantage, but let way too many fouls go uncalled.
Fourth stage: Start to develop an equilibrium on what you call.

The time spent in each stage varies, but I think they're almost universal.

I agree. Some of the officials I'm working with are in the 2nd stage, and some are in the 3rd.
A partner, last week, called several fouls, "on the floor - before the shot". Some of the plays resulted in a basket being taken away - to the dismay of the players and coaches. It was hard to be consistent as a crew. . .
So I had a discussion with him, after our game, regarding continuation / contact after the "gather", (which seems to be a current catchword). I referenced 4-11-2, and asked him to consider being more patient, so he could see the whole play, and not penalize good play.
I'd appreciate comments on how to address such an issue with newer officials.