Wisconsin vs Iowa

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Thanks, Bob. The concept is understandable, and I probably won't present it, in depth, to most of the newer officials I'm mentoring. As with so many things, the presentation of the concept and the application are of utmost interest.

Well, the rules are not so much different as is the application of the rules.

It takes a lot more contact to have an effect (advantage/disadvantage, RSBQ, RIDD, etc.) on a short jumper than it does on a long range shot or on a post move vs. perimeter movement.

Originally Posted by KCRC

Regarding post defense being discussed in this thread, can anyone post video of the foul immediately prior to the media timeout before the coach's meltdown. Just under 12 minutes in the second half I believe. Would anyone consider a player control foul for displacing the defender? If not, would the defender be within the rules to be more aggressive in "holding his ground"? Is holding his ground the back to the basket post defense that JetMetFan is referring to?

Isn't that the play at the beginning of the video? If yes, that is not a displacement foul.

[blindzebra]

The reason he went off was the Iowa possession prior to the foul the Iowa shooter in the paint had the defender go through him to block a shot and appeared to hit him in the head.

There were about 3 or 4 other plays early in the second half that also were extremely inconsistently called.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Well, the rules are not so much different as is the application of the rules.

It takes a lot more contact to have an effect (advantage/disadvantage, RSBQ, RIDD, etc.) on a short jumper than it does on a long range shot or on a post move vs. perimeter movement.

Thanks, Camron. This is an area with which many newer officials seem to struggle. And the simple "advantage/disadvantage" statement seems inadequate, when I'm talking to them.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Thanks, Camron. This is an area with which many newer officials seem to struggle. And the simple "advantage/disadvantage" statement seems inadequate, when I'm talking to them.

Newer officials are going to struggle with this, there's no skipping that part of the development.


First stage: Freeze and forget to blow your whistle.
Second stage: Call everything you see, all contact is a foul.
Third stage: Discover advantage/disadvantage, but let way too many fouls go uncalled.
Fourth stage: Start to develop an equilibrium on what you call.

The time spent in each stage varies, but I think they're almost universal.

[KCRC]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Isn't that the play at the beginning of the video? If yes, that is not a displacement foul.

So 4 or 5 feet of backward movement on 2 separate dribbles is not displacement? If not, what qualifies as displacement?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by KCRC

So 4 or 5 feet of backward movement on 2 separate dribbles is not displacement? If not, what qualifies as displacement?

I didn't see the play, but ...

The official must decide if the defense is giving way, or is being displaced. It's a tough decision while on the court.

edit: I went back and found the video. I agree with Arem, from the camera angle.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by KCRC

So 4 or 5 feet of backward movement on 2 separate dribbles is not displacement? If not, what qualifies as displacement?

The latest You Make the Call NCAA-Men's video has an example of post displacement, this play is nowhere close. The defender gave up ground pretty willingly.

Secondly, it wouldn't have hurt my feelings if that assistant coach joined the HC in the locker room.

[tjones1]

Big Ten suspends Iowa coach Fran McCaffery for one game - CBSSports.com

1 game? Seems low.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Adam

Newer officials are going to struggle with this, there's no skipping that part of the development.


First stage: Freeze and forget to blow your whistle.
Second stage: Call everything you see, all contact is a foul.
Third stage: Discover advantage/disadvantage, but let way too many fouls go uncalled.
Fourth stage: Start to develop an equilibrium on what you call.

The time spent in each stage varies, but I think they're almost universal.

I agree. Some of the officials I'm working with are in the 2nd stage, and some are in the 3rd.
A partner, last week, called several fouls, "on the floor - before the shot". Some of the plays resulted in a basket being taken away - to the dismay of the players and coaches. It was hard to be consistent as a crew. . .
So I had a discussion with him, after our game, regarding continuation / contact after the "gather", (which seems to be a current catchword). I referenced 4-11-2, and asked him to consider being more patient, so he could see the whole play, and not penalize good play.
I'd appreciate comments on how to address such an issue with newer officials.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Big Ten suspends Iowa coach Fran McCaffery for one game - CBSSports.com

1 game? Seems low.

That's some apology from the guy too.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That's some apology from the guy too.

I'm a huge Hawkeye fan and this whole thing leaves me disappointed. I have to ask, though, what you expected from his apology.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm a huge Hawkeye fan and this whole thing leaves me disappointed. I have to ask, though, what you expected from his apology.

How about, for once, the Coach actually apologizes. Something along the lines of

"I am really sorry that I lost it. I know better, and I need to keep myself under control. I especially want to apologize to Mr. Whoever and Mr. Whatshisname, the two officials that I 'went off' on. They are excellent officials and did not deserve the abuse I heaped on them."

Wishful thinking?? Yes...

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

How about, for once, the Coach actually apologizes. Something along the lines of

"I am really sorry that I lost it. I know better, and I need to keep myself under control. I especially want to apologize to Mr. Whoever and Mr. Whatshisname, the two officials that I 'went off' on. They are excellent officials and did not deserve the abuse I heaped on them."

Wishful thinking?? Yes...

I've had this happen a few times - messages like this forwarded through an assignor. Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I've always assumed the apology was written more to get the coach out of trouble than from sincerity.

[Adam]

I think sometimes all you're going to get is the "I screwed up and want to put this behind me" apology.