Question from my state's fan site...

[bainsey]

The following question is taken verbatim from my state's fan forum. I'd appreciate some thoughts on these...
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There are 21 seconds on the game clock as the ball is in-bounded. The red team is behind by one point and is on offense. After the red team puts the ball in play they complete 3 passes before the blue team deflects the ball out of bounds by the defense.

The refs make the correct call that it is red ball. However, the coach of the blue team realizes that no time has come off the clock during the previous play. Unable to get the attention of the officials at the far end of the court, and aware that he has no time-outs left, he brings the issue to the person running the clock who acknowledges the error and says he will consult with the refs to fix it. The blue coach turns to go back to his bench only to turn around again and see the ball being handed from the ref to the the red team to inbound the ball.

Fortunately the outcome of the game was not altered from these events, but I would like to know a few things. Not coincidentally, it was the home court of the red team.

1) Is the clock person technically an official that can get the refs attention for such a consultation?
2) Is there a different way the coach of the blue team could have handled this?
3) Please explain all options available.

[Remington]

Here are a couple rules (Art 2 and Art 1) followed by a case play that will help.


ART. 2

The game officials shall be a referee and an umpire or a referee and two umpires who shall be assisted by an official timer and scorer.

ART. 1

The head coach shall remain seated on the team bench, except:

a. By state association adoption, the head coach may stand within the designated coaching box described in 1-13-2. The first technical foul charged directly or indirectly to the head coach results in loss of coaching-box privileges and the head coach must remain seated for the remainder of the game, except as stated below in 10-5-1b, c, d and e.

b. The head coach may stand within the coaching box to request a time-out or signal his/her players to request a time-out.

c. The head coach may stand and/or leave the coaching box to confer with personnel at the scorer's table to request a time-out as in 5-8-4.

d. The head coach may stand within the coaching box to replace or remove a disqualified/injured player or player directed to leave the game.

e. The head coach may stand as in 10-4-4c and 10-4-4d.



5.10.1 SITUATION D:

There are six seconds left on the clock in the fourth quarter and the ball is out of bounds in the possession of Team A. The throw-in by A1 *touches the referee on the court and then goes across the court and out of bounds. The timer permits two seconds to run off the clock. What recourse does the coach of either team have in such situation?

RULING: Either coach may step to the scorer's table and request a 60-second time-out and have the referee come to the table. The coach is permitted to do this under provisions of the coach's rule. The referee shall come to the sideline and confer with one or both coaches and the timer about the matter; and if the referee has definite *knowledge that there were six seconds on the clock when the ball was awarded to Team A for the throw-in, it is the responsibility of the referee to have the two seconds put back on the clock. The timer and scorer and the other official(s) can be used by the *referee to gain definite information. If there is no mistake or if it cannot be *rectified, the requesting team will be charged with a 60-second *time-out. (5-11-4 Exception b; 5-8-4; 10-5-1c)

[MD Longhorn]

Coach handled it right. Scorer should have hit the buzzer and gotten the referee's attention to sort it out.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Coach handled it right. Scorer should have hit the buzzer and gotten the referee's attention to sort it out.

Yep, but the odds of them actually being able to remove some time are about 50/50, I'd say. At least one official would have needed to have a count of some kind; otherwise we'll be starting again with 21 seconds.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Adam

Yep, but the odds of them actually being able to remove some time are about 50/50, I'd say. At least one official would have needed to have a count of some kind; otherwise we'll be starting again with 21 seconds.

I agree completely.

[Ref16]

Originally Posted by Adam

Yep, but the odds of them actually being able to remove some time are about 50/50, I'd say. At least one official would have needed to have a count of some kind; otherwise we'll be starting again with 21 seconds.

Well said.

Without definite knowledge of how much time should have passed then 21 seconds will remain on the clock. The coach handled it correctly, the score keeper needed to get the referees attention at that point.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Ref16

Well said.

Without definite knowledge of how much time should have passed then 21 seconds will remain on the clock. The coach handled it correctly, the score keeper needed to get the referees attention at that point.

The coach could have stayed at the table and /or returned to the table once s/he realized that the timer didn't sound the horn.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The coach could have stayed at the table and /or returned to the table once s/he realized that the timer didn't sound the horn.

Sure, but what happens if the coach stays at the table, they call the officials over for a CE. Then, when we don't fix the CE (because it isn't one), don't have to charge a TO?

Don't have my book at work, so I could be off on this.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Adam

Sure, but what happens if the coach stays at the table, they call the officials over for a CE. Then, when we don't fix the CE (because it isn't one), don't have to charge a TO?

Don't have my book at work, so I could be off on this.

I for one wouldn't. This wasn't intended by the rules, nor should we punish the coach for our complete lack of competence. Besides the ball is dead and the coach has a legitimate gripe. WE may not be able to fix it, but we shouldn't compound it either.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Adam

Sure, but what happens if the coach stays at the table, they call the officials over for a CE. Then, when we don't fix the CE (because it isn't one), don't have to charge a TO?

Don't have my book at work, so I could be off on this.

Correct. The coach takes the risk of the CE challenge costing him the time-out. Remember the rule states that the coach goes to the table to request a time-out. It simply isn't charged if a CE is corrected or prevented.

Anyone who wouldn't charge the excessive TO and the accompanying team technical foul is just wrong and making up his/her own rulings.

[Scuba_ref]

This is not a correctable error, it is a timing issue and in my opinion the TO vs TF doesn't come into play.

There are 5 correctable errors; 4 deal with free throws and the 5th with counting/or not a score.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Correct. The coach takes the risk of the CE challenge costing him the time-out. Remember the rule states that the coach goes to the table to request a time-out. It simply isn't charged if a CE is corrected or prevented.

Anyone who wouldn't charge the excessive TO and the accompanying team technical foul is just wrong and making up his/her own rulings.

I agree with Nevada, but I'm also telling the coach his options and the "consequences" before we begin any review.

edit: This isn't a CE in HS. No TO charged.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scuba_ref

This is not a correctable error, it is a timing issue and in my opinion the TO vs TF doesn't come into play.

There are 5 correctable errors; 4 deal with free throws and the 5th with counting/or not a score.

You may wish to consult the text of the rule. It not only covers CEs, but also timing and AP/scoring errors.

Rule 5, Section 8
ART. 4

Responds to the scorer's signal to grant a coach's request that a correctable error, as in 2-10, or a timing, scoring or alternating-possession mistake be prevented or rectified. The appeal to the official shall be presented at the scorer's table where a coach of each team may be present.

[bainsey]

I appreciate the thoughts thus far.

I can't see you can possibly continue the game with 21 seconds. While you don't have definite knowledge of the exact time that elapsed, you do have definite knowledge that SOME time should have gone off the clock, particularly after three passes. It can't be zero seconds.

You can consider any backcourt or closely guarded counts in your estimate, or find other ways to find a good number, but zero can't be it, and if you went with zero, you have to charge the team with a technical foul.

[Drizzle]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I appreciate the thoughts thus far.

I can't see you can possibly continue the game with 21 seconds. While you don't have definite knowledge of the exact time that elapsed, you do have definite knowledge that SOME time should have gone off the clock, particularly after three passes. It can't be zero seconds.

You can consider any backcourt or closely guarded counts in your estimate, or find other ways to find a good number, but zero can't be it, and if you went with zero, you have to charge the team with a technical foul.

Rule 5-10-1 REQUIRES definite knowledge when you're adjusting the clock. So you can use any counts any official had during the period where the clock should have been running, but if no such count exists, you're sticking with 21 seconds. Yes, it stinks, but that's the rule.