POI or Not?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Two-Man Crew; Third QT; and Team B has the AP Arrow. A1 has PC in his Front Court TS. L is TS and T is OTT.

A1 drives toward the FT Lane along the FT Line extended and loses the ball. A1 dives on the ball and regains PC. Before B1 can tie up A1, Team A's HC requests a TO. T recognizes A-HC's request by sounding his whistle and giving the Stop Clock Signal and then starts to move toward the ST. L moves toward the Ball when T sounds his whistle.

As the T is moving toward the ST and L moves toward the Ball, A1 and B1 grab each other's jersey and start to shove and slap at each other. L sounds his whistle and gets between A1 and B1 and the T joins him in seperating A1 and B1.

A1 and B1's actions are considered Fighting by the Officials, A1 and B1 are charged with a FTF for Fighting and they are Disqualified for the game.

A-HC and B-HC are notified that A1 and B1 have been Disqualified; the Scorer is notified of the DTF and the Disqualifications; the Timer is then instructed to start a 20-second TO to replace A1 and B1; then Team A's TO request is reported to the Scorer and the Timer is instructed start a 30-second TO for Team A.

When Team A's TO is over, how is the Ball put back into play (Is NFHS different from NCAA?)? Give NFHS and NCAA Rules and Casebook/Approved Rulings to support your answer.

MTD, Sr.

[Terrapins Fan]

what is "TS", "ST", "OTT"?

Just figured out, TS, Table side>

Double T, NF, POI.

rule 10 pen 8 a (1)

[APG]

Holy cow that's a lot of shorthand there...DTF? ST? FTF? Pretty sure we allow more than 140 characters per post here....

All double fouls go to the point of interruption...

A's ball for the throw-in

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by apg

holy cow that's a lot of shorthand there...dtf? St? Ftf? Pretty sure we allow more than 140 characters per post here....

All double fouls go to the point of interruption...

A's ball for the throw-in

itiawtbincwata.

[JetMetFan]

I actually understood the shorthand on the first try!

NFHS 10-6-11-1c
No free throws...for double personal or technical fouls (point of interruption).

NCAAM & W 4-27-1d
Point of interruption is the point in a game in which a stoppage in play occurs. The point of interruption is based on both the location of the ball and the team in control and is used to determine where to resume play because of...any double foul or simultaneous personal foul, as in Rule 4-15 unless only one of the fouls is a flagrant foul.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I knew which NFHS and NCAA Rules apply but there are two possible answers to my POI question. I will reference NFHS Rules because the situation occurred in a H.S. game.


What do we know?

1) The Ball was Dead when the DTF occurred.

2) There is no TC when the Ball is Dead.

3) NFHS R4-S36-A2b: "Play shall be resumed by a free throw or a throw-in when the interruption occurred during this activity or if a team is entitled to such."

4) NFHS R4-S36-A2c: "Play shall be resumed by a jump ball or alternating-possession throw-in when neither team is in control and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is involved when the game is interrupted."


APG has said that the Ball should be put back into play after the TO with a Throw-in by Team A. Is that correct?

A) R4-S36-A2c says that since the DTF occurred while the Ball was Dead (meaning there was no TC by either Team when the DTF occurred) then the Ball is put back into play via the AP Arrow: Team B is awarded a AP Throw-in after the TO is over.

B) But, since the DTF occurs after Team A's request for a TO was recognized by the Game Officials, one could use R4-S36-2b to imply that the DTF occurs during Team A's TO and therefore the Ball is put back into play by Team A after Team A's TO has ended.


Which is the correct POI? A or B?

I am leaning toward B, but if I were a betting man (and I am) I would say that A is the correct POI.

MTD, Sr.

[just another ref]

POI was the timeout. Play should be resumed as usual after the timeout. Live or dead ball is not the determining factor here. If the DF occurs while a try is in flight or immediately after a made basket, the ball is live in one case and dead in the other but there is no TC in either. But the arrow is not used here either.

[JetMetFan]

At least I understood the shorthand

POI is Team A's TO or, specifically, the throw-in after Team A's TO. That's where the proceedings would have resumed so that's where you pick up.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

3) NFHS R4-S36-A2b: "Play shall be resumed by a free throw or a throw-in when the interruption occurred during this activity or if a team is entitled to such."

This is the only part that matters. A gets the throw-in.

Don't go to Vegas.

[Raymond]

Saying there is no TC b/c the ball is dead is making this way more complicated than it needs to be. It's a DF foul and the POI is A's throw-in after the time-out.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Saying there is no TC b/c the ball is dead is making this way more complicated than it needs to be. It's a DF foul and the POI is A's throw-in after the time-out.

But BNR, there is no TC when the Ball is Dead, and that is when the DTF occurred.

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

But BNR, there is no TC when the Ball is Dead, and that is when the DTF occurred.

MTD, Sr.

Doesn't matter.

A1 has the ball for a throw-in. A2 and B2 taunt each other. Double T; resume with the throw in by A.

Ball goes OOB off B. A2 and B2 taunt each other (or swing at each other). Double T, resume with a throw in by A.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

But BNR, there is no TC when the Ball is Dead, and that is when the DTF occurred.

MTD, Sr.

And?

If you have a double foul while a successful shot by Team A is in the air, you aren't going to go to the arrow are you?

[BillyMac]

It appears that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. got a new smart phone for Christmas.

[Adam]

Mark, A is entitled to a throw in when the DTF occurs. That is your point of interruption.