Knee Pads?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

I think they are more shin pads than anything, as I rarely see the padding on the knee.

NFHS allows shin pads (maybe not the combination shin pads/compression sleeves) with no color restrictions.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS allows shin pads (maybe not the combination shin pads/compression sleeves) with no color restrictions.

I hate the @#$@$# fashion police crap. They try to define *everything* and then stupid things like this have the potential to get blown out of proportion in games because officials have been instructed this year to address uniform issues. Is this a sleeve? Is this a knee pad? Shin pad? What if its a combination? Which takes precedence?

They should make the uniform rules easier. Everything you wear should match your uniform's primary color only (shoes excluded). If you want to wear tights, long sleeves, wrist bands, headbands, who cares. Make ths f'ing rule simple.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

I hate the @#$@$# fashion police crap.

Although I wouldn't quite use the same colorful language as you, I do partly agree with you. I hate these issues, but, at the same time, I don't ignore them.

Last night, I had a the consolation game of a girls high school holiday tournament. I didn't notice it during warmups, because the girls had their warmup jerseys on, but at sometime during the first period I spotted a player wearing a white undershirt (the opponents had white jerseys, some with white undershirts) under a red jersey. I waited for a stopped clock, dead ball, ball not about to become live, situation, and instructed the girl to remove herself to the bench, and instructed the head coach to replace her with a properly equipped substitute. The coach responded that she thought that the undershirt could match any color in the uniform (white border around the number) and that the girl had been allowed to play the previous evening in the first round of the tournament by the officials at the site. I responded, not tonight, and she reluctantly sent in a substitute.

At halftime, two of the four officials at the site, including my partner, thought that I should let the girl play with the white undershirt. She was a little on the chunky side, and had a jersey that was a little tight fitting. One official explained that we shouldn't sweat the small stuff, and that participation by the student athlete was the more important than any such "fashion" rules.

This is a varsity high school varsity player, maybe a junior, or a senior, with a qualified, and certified, high school varsity coach, at a point a few weeks into the new season, with six games under their belts. Should I believe that this player, at same point in her freshman, junior varsity, middle school, travel team, or recreation team, career, never discovered that she should be wearing a red undershirt under a red jersey?

Yes, some of the "fashion" issues may be hard to figure out (sleeve/knee pad). But others are as easy as ABC, jewelry, undershirts, headbands, wristbands, ponytail holders, etc.

Who do we blame for these "fashion" problems? The NFHS? Yes. State interscholastic governing bodies? Yes. The coaches? Yes. The players? Yes. But let's not forget the officials, those officials who purposely ignore the rules because they don't believe that these should be rules to begin with because these rules have nothing to do with "real basketball".

If all parties got together, and clearly stated what rules would be enforced, and that these rules would be consistently enforced, then we would have a much easier time. What makes these rules (below) more difficult to understand than any other rules in the book?

Players may not participate while wearing jewelry. Religious medals or medical alert medals are not considered jewelry. A religious medal must be taped and worn under the uniform. A medical alert medal must be taped and may be visible.

Headbands and wristbands must be white, black, beige, or a single solid school color. When wearing headbands and/or wristbands, all team players must wear the same color, i.e., the headband color must match the wristband color, the same color for the entire team. Only a single item may be worn on the head and/or on each wrist. Sweatbands must be worn below the elbow. Rubber, cloth, or elastic bands, of any color, may be used to control hair. Undershirts must be similar in color to the jersey and shall not have frayed or ragged edges. Arm compression sleeves, and leg compression sleeves, must be worn for medical purposes and must be white, black, beige, or a single solid school color. When wearing arm compression sleeves, and/or leg compression sleeves, all team players must wear the same color, i.e., the arm compression sleeve color must match the leg compression sleeve color, the same color for the entire team.

Our Catholic middle school assigner wants all "fashion" rules enforced, at all levels, by all officials, and he has threatened to withhold our pay it we don't enforce all of these rules. He makes this clear to all athletic directors, coaches, and officials, at the start of every season. During the first week of play we have to remind a few players, and coaches, about the rules. But after a week, or two, we've got every one on board. No "fashion" problems. Period.

If a bunch of rinky dink "tween" age players, with volunteer coaches, can get these rules right, why can't these rules be followed in high school programs?

[SCalScoreKeeper]

I'm with you billymac- When the coaches are in the meeting and are asked "Are your players properly & legally equipped for this contest?" and the coach says yes then at that point it's time to enforce the rules as written.Only way the coaches & kids will learn.In pre-game its tell the coach and let them deal with it.I work volleyball in the fall & know if I miss a uniform issue I know I'd hear about it from my supervisors.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

But let's not forget the officials, those officials who purposely ignore the rules because they don't believe that these should be rules to begin with because these rules have nothing to do with "real basketball".

Amen. The t-shirt rule has been on the books for 20+ years and at times the biggest issues we have with it come from our fellow officials. "No one" likes it but "everybody" notices when it isn't enforced.

Some of those who don’t like it use the “participation” argument but it’s not as though the girl in Billy’s scenario was wearing a hard cast or something similar. It’s a t-shirt. The rules allow a t-shirt. One of the primary restrictions is it has to be the main color of the jersey. Red t-shirts – of any size – aren’t exactly hard to come by. Find the player – chunky or no – a red t-shirt and the problem is solved.

[deecee]

I'm not against them. I'm against their complete lack of simplicity.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

I'm not against them. I'm against their complete lack of simplicity.

Yes, they aren't the easiest rules in the book to understand, but they're not the hardest rules to understand either. If all coaches would enforce these rules with their players ("This is the color I want all of you to wear for headbands, including prewrap, wristbands, and sleeves: (Insert color). (Insert color) undershirts for home games. (Insert color) undershirt for road games. No jewelry. Period. No exceptions."), and if all officials would enforce these rules in all their games, then I believe that 99% of the problems would go away.

As I stated in my earlier post regarding a Catholic middle school league: If a bunch of rinky dink "tween" age players, with volunteer coaches, can get these rules right, why can't these rules be followed in high school programs?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yes, they aren't the easiest rules in the book to understand, but they're not the hardest rules to understand either. If all coaches would enforce these rules with their players ("This is the color I want all of you to wear for headbands, including prewrap, wristbands, and sleeves: (Insert color). Period."), and if all officials would enforce these rules in all their games, then I believe that 99% of the problems would go away.

As I stated in my earlier post regarding a Catholic middle school league: If a bunch of rinky dink "tween" age players, with volunteer coaches, can get these rules right, why can't these rules be followed in high school programs?

To me the fashion rules are easy, just not enforced very well.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by OKREF

To me the fashion rules are easy, just not enforced very well.

This particular fashion rule is not so clear and easy and I've had this conversation multiple times with officials resulting in multiple interpretations.

The rule on sleeves is clear, however the rule does not apply to knee or shin pads. And one can make a valid argument that the hybrid pad/sleeves are in fact pads.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich1

It doesn't say anything about knee/elbow pads and I never said it did. It DOES say that the sleeves are prohibited unless medically necessary and I stated earlier that in my opinion these are sleeves with pads, not knee pads. Reference the pictures provided if there is confusion about my interpretations. I have no problem with "real" knee pads.

And, for the record, I address this in pregame exactly as jetmetfan suggested and if the coach says they are necessary then I let it go. But I have had a few coaches say "I don't know" so its not always an easy fix.

If you're expected to ask, why not tell the coach, "The correct answer is 'Yes.'" ?