Has and Keeps LGP
 

Disagree with the statement about establishing LGP and then still having a block call. In the scenario you present, the defensive players loses LGP when they are moving towards the offensive player. Which you can also digress to break the rule of verticality.

Either way if a player has and KEEPS LGP then it is a PC foul.

Prior messages have "always" said "establishes." Now you've (correctly) added "maintains." That's the difference.

No one has made that assertion. :rolleyes:

The defender needs to be in the path the offensive player is moving. A1 could be dribbling away from her basket to the division line, then B1 would need to take a position between A1 and the division line. I don't think anyone has suggested B1 could not obtain LGP in this situation.

I have a http://peanutbutterjellytime.net/pea...jelly-time.gif.

I don't think it's all that close either.

Incidentally, I had a similar play to this my first year except the defender got there early enough that he was stationary and screening rules applied. I ruled that one a charge.

You have a dancing banana? :eek: TMI

Oh, that's a "block" signal he's doing. :D

NFHS
Rule: 4-23-2
ART. 2
To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard's torso must be facing the opponent.

Both defender's feet were definitely touching the playing court (direction of toes does not matter). However, her torso was not facing the opponent. Therefore, I have a BLOCK, not PC.

Good point, your right

While that can also be considered LGP, I don't believe it is the only place to get LGP. Between the player and the basket is always going to be a position where LGP can be obtained regardless of the direction of movement.

What? One is towards one is away. If LGP has been obtained, one is a foul while the other is legal.

Older:

I am going to use your post to make a point about the "front of the guard's torso must be facing the opponent".


Another point that has been discussed in this thread with regard to LGP is NFHS R4-S23-A2 which states that:

Article 2a: To obtain an initial legal guarding position the guard must have both feet touching the playing court.

Article 2b: To obtain an initial legal guarding position the guard's torso must be facing the opponent.


Now, as a retired structural engineer I get to apply my mathematical skills to discuss NFHS R4-S23-A2.

1) Both Paragraphs (a) and (b) of Article 2 must occur at the same time at some point during the action to obtain LGP.

2) There is no minimum length of time required for the requirements of Paragraphs (a) and (b) to be maintained to obtain LGP. The moment of time can be as short as 0.000,...,...,000,...,1 seconds (One can have an infinite number of 0's between the decimal point at the 1.).

3) The facing of the guard's torso can be defined, mathematically, as follows: At the moment that the requirements of Paragraphs (a) and (b) are met, the orientation of the front of the guard's torso, so as to be facing his/her opponent, must meet the following requirements:

a) Imagine a straight line (Line A) between the between the guard and his/her opponent and imagine a second line (Line B) running through the shoulders of the guard.

b) The angle between Line B and Line A at the point where the two lines intersect can be 90 degrees (the lines are perpendicular to each other).

c) Or, Line B can be rotated about the point where the two lines intersect from their perpendicular orientation in either direction by as much as 89.999,...,999 degrees (One can have an infinite number of 9's after the decimal point.).

(b) and (c) both meet the requirement of Article 2b.


MTD, Sr.

AremRed:

Where in the Rules is this "in the path" of which you speak. I have peruesed the Rules Books from 1971 hence and cannot find it.

MTD, Sr.

TriggerMN:

Why did you think I was not serious?

MTD, Sr.

MTD...the very act of guarding requires the defender to be in the path

NCAA (Men and Women)

Rule 4

Section 17. Guarding
Art. 1. Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. The guarding position shall be initially established and then maintained inbounds on the playing court.

NFHS:

Rule 4-23
Art. 1 Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the guard and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded. Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without *illegally contacting an opponent. A player who extends an arm, shoulder, hip or leg into the path of an opponent is not considered to have a legal position if contact occurs.

I never see both of these happening. IMO, the defenders torso never faces the opponent.

+10,000 and fine Cuban cigar.

MTD, Sr.