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-   -   What Are You Gonna Do? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/96759-what-you-gonna-do.html)

APG Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 913997)
Let me further the scenario: Say the kid that's just behind the 3 point line is the one who got the technical foul for screaming "F--- You" at the kid who is not shooting. Does this change how anyone deals with the situation?

I realize it isn't in the book that he can't stand there, but if you know his sole purpose is to intimidate the shooter, then how is that not an unsporting act? And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying give him a T, I'm saying you need to move him diplomatically if possible. If you're the trail, call him over and have a pointless conversation or SOMETHING to get him to move. This isn't in the rule book, it's just good game management to prevent another possible bad scenario after one that has already occurred.
Short of saying something...how is standing 6 feet behind a player going to intimidate anyone? Are you trying to imply that one's mere presence...standing behind someone and not doing anything...is somehow unsporting?

Scrapper1 Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:30am
The only thing I might do is what BatteryPowered suggests. Find a way to talk quietly to the kid and let him know he has a very short leash before disconcertion kicks in.

Welpe Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG (Post 914010)
Short of saying something...how is standing 6 feet behind a player going to intimidate anyone? Are you trying to imply that one's mere presence...standing behind someone and not doing anything...is somehow unsporting?
This.

If he's disconcerting, then I'll deal with it. He is legally allowed to be there so I have no business moving him.

Adam Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 913997)
Let me further the scenario: Say the kid that's just behind the 3 point line is the one who got the technical foul for screaming "F--- You" at the kid who is not shooting. Does this change how anyone deals with the situation?

I realize it isn't in the book that he can't stand there, but if you know his sole purpose is to intimidate the shooter, then how is that not an unsporting act? And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying give him a T, I'm saying you need to move him diplomatically if possible. If you're the trail, call him over and have a pointless conversation or SOMETHING to get him to move. This isn't in the rule book, it's just good game management to prevent another possible bad scenario after one that has already occurred.
I disagree. Chances are, if he's standing there, he's doing it on purpose because he knows he can. There's no reason for him to be anywhere else, either, and the rules don't give us any reason to address his position. If he does or says anything unsporting, address that, but his position? I'm not touching it. Either way a coach is going to be mad, but I'd rather not have to deal with one who's mad AND right.

Adam Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatteryPowered (Post 914001)
Let's assume this kid is wearing number 12.

I get close enough for him to hear me and say "Number 12" and when he looks I beckon him over and say "You know, it appears things are getting a bit chippy and from what I have seen so far you are a leader of this team. Think you can help me get everyone focused on just playing basketball so we don't have a parade to the line shooting technicals?"

It may be total BS, but you moved him out of the way and avoided a possible escalation...made it obvious to him that the crew is watching EVERYONE...made him feel important and may have just saved the entire crew some grief. It might not work as the kid may ignore you, but it is worth a shot.
You've just moved him within the peripheral vision of the shooter, too.

BatteryPowered Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 914019)
You've just moved him within the peripheral vision of the shooter, too.
Not if, while he is moving to you, you backup enough so that he is not.

Sometimes it might be safe to assume that people are not as dumb as a box of rocks when reading their post. Some of us are smart enough to think of those things and are hoping the readers are smart enough to understand that not every action in a hypothetical situation needs to be written. For example, I failed to mention that the brief conversation should occur while the official is standing so that he can see the other players and that he/she should continue breathing during the stoppage in play.

Adam Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatteryPowered (Post 914027)
Not if, while he is moving to you, you backup enough so that he is not.

Sometimes it might be safe to assume that people are not as dumb as a box of rocks when reading their post. Some of us are smart enough to think of those things and are hoping the readers are smart enough to understand that not every action in a hypothetical situation needs to be written. For example, I failed to mention that the brief conversation should occur while the official is standing so that he can see the other players and that he/she should continue breathing during the stoppage in play.
Didn't mean to insult your intelligence. :/

So, let me ask, what are you going to do if he doesn't come over when you beckon him?

MD Longhorn Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:33am
This conversation is incredibly dumb. There is no rule support to move this player. If you try to, you are causing a problem where one does not exist. I completely fail to understand why standing in one place, completely out of the view of the shooter, would even remotely be considered intimidating any moreso than standing anywhere else on the court.

We don't pick nits.

This is not even a nit. It's an imaginary non-existent nit.

BatteryPowered Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 914031)
Didn't mean to insult your intelligence. :/

So, let me ask, what are you going to do if he doesn't come over when you beckon him?
My apologies...guess I woke up a tad bit cranky this morning. I definetly could have stated that more diplomatically.

If the player doesn't come over I am doing nothing because I cannot make him move. You obviously have to be there and see the events leading up to the T and how the game has been going. If the T was unsporting and emotions are obviously high I just consider this "preventative officiating". I was always taught that 95% of the time, trouble starts when the ball stops. If you can do something to difuse the situation why would you not try? I understand there is no basis in the rules for making him move but consider the possibilities of how far south things could go in certian situations if you do nothing.

Rich Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:53am
I'd do nothing, as long as the player isn't talking to / at the shooter.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCHSAA (Post 913981)
I know the rule, however I also realized the player has no business being that close. There is no rebounding opportunity and you could tell he was trying to create trouble on the play.

I want to adhere to the rule, but I also want to manage the game.

NCHSAA:

Who says he canNOT be there? I do not care what he was trying to do while standing there as long as he does not Disconcert the Shooter or commit an Unsportsmanlike TF.

Just do NOT go there.

MTD, Sr.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 914032)
This conversation is incredibly dumb. There is no rule support to move this player. If you try to, you are causing a problem where one does not exist. I completely fail to understand why standing in one place, completely out of the view of the shooter, would even remotely be considered intimidating any moreso than standing anywhere else on the court.

We don't pick nits.

This is not even a nit. It's an imaginary non-existent nit.

+10

MTD, Sr.

Rich Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 914043)
NCHSAA:

Who says he canNOT be there? I do not care what he was trying to do while standing there as long as he does not Disconcert the Shooter or commit an Unsportsmanlike TF.

Just do NOT go there.

MTD, Sr.
Really. Why does he have no business being there? That question has no answer -- it's NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 913997)
Say the kid that's just behind the 3 point line is the one who got the technical foul for screaming "F--- You" at the kid who is not shooting. Does this change how anyone deals with the situation?


frezer11:

B1 is not going to be there because "F-bombs" are FTFs in my game.

MTD, Sr.

Raymond Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrStBballRef (Post 913976)
I'd watch to make sure he doesn't disconcert the shooter, but that's all....
What I was going to say also.


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