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Post move
8th grade girls basketball. Player receives ball in post and squares to basket. Immediately takes ball and uses it to provide force and pushes defensive player away then shoots 6 foot shot which goes in. Can this be player control even though no contact has occurred?
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All fouls that are not unsporting, require contact.
That should answer your question. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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And, it's been discussed here with several on each side of this. |
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I agree with Bob.
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"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example." "If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..." "Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4." "The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge) |
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Six Of One, Half Dozen Of Another ...
Rule 4 includes a definition of a foul that describes contact, in general, not just body to body contact:
A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements. However, once one gets to Rule 10, the various types of illegal contact all involve various types of body to body contact, e.g., hand, leg, body, arm.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
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Put me in the "agree with Adam" camp....which also puts me in the "agree with bob" camp.
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Put me in the not agreeing with Bob, Adam and Camron camp. You cannot call a foul IMO without contact from another person's body part. Someone can take the ball away or knock it out of your hand. I am not calling a foul just because the ball was used to cause contact.
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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While I agree in principle with what JRut says, I vaguely recall a college clarification or ruling coming directly from Art Heyland a few years ago when the swinging the elbows rule first came out indicating that a FF1/intentional foul should be called when the offensive player contacts the defensive player with the ball, above the defensive players shoulders, while excessively swinging their elbows, even though there was not contact with the offensive players arms. I can see how one can extrapolate that ruling to the situation described in the op, especially considering there is not anything written specifically about that type of play.
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That is an interesting point Johnny, but I do not believe this conversation was about NCAA rules. And I would have to see that ruling to be comfortable making that kind of call, certainly at that level.
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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My high school interpreter has this as a PC. I’d be interested to learn what other interpreters say about it.
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"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example." "If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..." "Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4." "The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge) |
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4-45-5: The offensive player............may not "clear out" or cause contact within the defender's vertical plane, which is a foul.
Clearing out by using the ball is still clearing out.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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