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-   -   Disconcertion From The Bench (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/95921-disconcertion-bench.html)

Camron Rust Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 903776)
I have to agree with this. The response from MTD was way out of proportion with the issue.

Mark may have gone way overboard on it but he was right in that it shouldn't be ignored.

Adam Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stripes (Post 903774)
MTD, please stop shouting and get off your high horse. Don't try and patronize me by using bold font and capital letters. Shouting and high post counts don't make you right. Trying to tell me to leave officiating because you disagree with me is ludicrous. I don't know who died and made you the over-lord of officiating, but here is a news flash: you're not that guy. You don't know a thing about me, my officiating or my "intestinal fortitude." If you, or anyone else, wants to call things like this, I can't stop you, but what I end up doing in my games is cleaning up the mess from people doing things like this.

If you don't like my opinions, ignore them. I have found that easily done with you.

Regardless of how inappropriate MTD's response was, have to ask. What sort of mess are you cleaning up? 1. I've never had a bench pull crap like this. 2. I've never had a coach complain about the noise from other bench.

What mess are you talking about?

Adam Thu Aug 29, 2013 01:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stripes (Post 903725)
Totally disagree. Noise and distractions are part of the game. If you want to open that can of worms...be my guest. I see nothing wrong with what the bench personnel were described as doing. IMO, a FT shooter should be able tune out the things described and that makes them, once again, IMO, something to ignore.

Noise and distractions? Yes. Concerted chanting and stomping from the bench? Nope. Fans get to do all sorts of things coaches and players can't. This is no exception.

Smitty Thu Aug 29, 2013 01:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 903793)
Mark may have gone way overboard on it but he was right in that it shouldn't be ignored.

That's not what I said. His response was so ridiculously extreme that whatever message he might have been trying to send was lost in the exaggeration. Knowing when to subdue the bench is subjective and relative to the situation. If you have a packed gym where everyone in the stands is screaming and shouting during a free throw and the bench players are stomping their feet, are you going to stop everything and go tell the bench to knock it off? What is over the line may be different for one person as opposed to their partners as well.

BayStateRef Thu Aug 29, 2013 01:29pm

I understand "opponent" the way Billy does: anyone on the other team. The rules' writers would have said "players" if they wanted us to penalize only those on the floor.

I have called disconcertion on a coach...who yelled, precisely as the free throw shooter released the first of two free throws: "Box Out." I have also called it on a player, an inch on the north side of the 3-point line, who clapped and yelled "Rebound" at the precise moment that ball was released. We get to make judgments as to what is disconcertion. Absent any specific guidance (from the NFHS or from my assignor), I applied the rule as I understood it.

I do not agree this is a technical foul for unsporting conduct. The disconcertion rule fits perfectly here. There is no need to look for any other penalty.

Adam Thu Aug 29, 2013 01:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayStateRef (Post 903807)
I understand "opponent" the way Billy does: anyone on the other team. The rules' writers would have said "players" if they wanted us to penalize only those on the floor.

I have called disconcertion on a coach...who yelled, precisely as the free throw shooter released the first of two free throws: "Box Out." I have also called it on a player, an inch on the north side of the 3-point line, who clapped and yelled "Rebound" at the precise moment that ball was released. We get to make judgments as to what is disconcertion. Absent any specific guidance (from the NFHS or from my assignor), I applied the rule as I understood it.

I do not agree this is a technical foul for unsporting conduct. The disconcertion rule fits perfectly here. There is no need to look for any other penalty.

While I agree with you, I don't agree with your "the rules' writers would have said 'players'" point. I don't share your confidence in their skills.

MD Longhorn Thu Aug 29, 2013 01:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 903806)
That's not what I said. His response was so ridiculously extreme that whatever message he might have been trying to send was lost in the exaggeration. Knowing when to subdue the bench is subjective and relative to the situation. If you have a packed gym where everyone in the stands is screaming and shouting during a free throw and the bench players are stomping their feet, are you going to stop everything and go tell the bench to knock it off? What is over the line may be different for one person as opposed to their partners as well.

I agree his response was rather extreme. However, I believe he tried talking some sense into him without that extreme response several times.

It's like when I say something to my child, 3-4 times in increasing volume until the final time I'm yelling and they say, "Why are you YELLING?!?!" Um .. because normal volume wasn't working!

Smitty Thu Aug 29, 2013 01:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 903810)
I believe he tried talking some sense into you without that extreme response several times.

Wasn't me. I was just defending his point (the guy who was the target of the red yelling).

MD Longhorn Thu Aug 29, 2013 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 903811)
Wasn't me. I was just defending his point (the guy who was the target of the red yelling).

True. My bad. I've corrected my post.

rockyroad Thu Aug 29, 2013 03:43pm

Have to agree with Smitty. Taking a very small issue and telling someone to get out of officiating if they can't handle it "right" is way, way, way over the top.

BillyMac Thu Aug 29, 2013 04:55pm

Ignoring ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stripes (Post 903725)
Something to ignore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 903791)
Something solved with a quick word. I do not think we need to make much more out of it then that.

Agree 100% with JRutledge. "A quick word" is not ignoring.

BillyMac Thu Aug 29, 2013 04:58pm

Simple, Rational, To The Point ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 903779)
Being right is what makes him right.

If I haven't already done it this week, I'm nominating this for Post O' The Week.

BillyMac Thu Aug 29, 2013 05:02pm

Editors Edit ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 903808)
I don't share your confidence in their skills.

... nor the skills of the rules editor.

bob jenkins Thu Aug 29, 2013 08:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 903834)
Agree 100% with JRutledge. "A quick word" is not ignoring.

Put me in this camp too. and, while MTD was "over the top", I understand how he got there.

RookieDude Fri Aug 30, 2013 03:06am

Thanks a lot guys...now I might pay attention to something that might not need much attention.

You know...kind of like that song you just can't get out of your head. ;)

I honestly can not think of a time when the bench has disconcerted a free thrower...but then again, I don't do girls games. :D


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