The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Block-Charges (video) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/95761-block-charges-video.html)

JetMetFan Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 901990)
I don't consider it saving the crew by getting the call wrong. I don't think an official should jump in unless they have the view to get it right. He didn't.

It's saving the crew because something had to be called and I can't say one way or another whether he missed it. Neither can the population at-large, apparently, since there are differing opinions in the thread.

As for having a good look at it, on the end zone replay it shows the T stepped down below the 28-foot line before making the call. He didn't jump in. He followed the play, waited then reacted. If you want to take someone to task, I think it would be the L.

JRutledge Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob1968 (Post 901983)
So, when there is a dbl whistle on such plays, how do you sort it out? In your pre-game conference w/partners, what do you do to define your crew's method of determining who takes the call?

All officials do not see the same things or the entire play, so you can pre-game all you like but that is not going to stop an official that sees a foul to judge this as a foul and call it. Both of these plays IMO can have either official make these calls if they see something. If you have a double whistle, then it usually goes to the primary. Or in some cases if the person saw the beginning of the play is likely going to watch the entire play and make the right call. This is an ebb and flow situation where you have to adjust to each play.

Peace

Camron Rust Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 901992)
It's saving the crew because something had to be called and I can't say one way or another whether he missed it. Neither can the population at-large, apparently, since there are differing opinions in the thread.

I really don't see how, using the replay, anyone can come to any conclusion other than a block. There is one angle gives such a good view that it no longer involves judgement. From the replay showing the shooter coming straight at the camera, it is very clear that there was nothing in her path at the time she went airborne. Once you see that, it is merely a matter of rule. It can only be a block if the shooter is airborne before anyone is in their path.

At live speed from the positions of the officials or from several camera angles, it can look like a charge and I can how they might think it was a charge but that doesn't make it the right call when there is one angle which clearly shows it is not.

AremRed Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 901990)
saving the crew

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 901992)
It's saving the crew because something had to be called

I was at a camp in April where several D1 clinicians emphasized to me NEVER to call in someone else's area (obviously not including secondary areas) unless it was a game-saving call. Of course, this means you have to trust your partners to take care of their areas. According to their logic, this is not a game-saving call and thus should not be touched by the T.

Multiple Sports Thu Aug 08, 2013 01:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 902037)
I was at a camp in April where several D1 clinicians emphasized to me NEVER to call in someone else's area (obviously not including secondary areas) unless it was a game-saving call. Of course, this means you have to trust your partners to take care of their areas. According to their logic, this is not a game-saving call and thus should not be touched by the T.

Arem -

I don't disagree, however when you have a crash / wreck / multiple bodies on the floor are you passing because you are working with Karl Hess and zTony Greene????

If they have a brain cramp and you come get that and you are right, regardless of time and score, two things are gonna happen. They will appreciate it and you will gain the trust of John Clougherty or John Cahill.....

Just my opinion....

Multiple Sports Thu Aug 08, 2013 01:18am

Arem -

I'm curious....what part of the country was this camp and was it men's or women's....

JRutledge Thu Aug 08, 2013 01:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 902037)
I was at a camp in April where several D1 clinicians emphasized to me NEVER to call in someone else's area (obviously not including secondary areas) unless it was a game-saving call. Of course, this means you have to trust your partners to take care of their areas. According to their logic, this is not a game-saving call and thus should not be touched by the T.

I have had D1 clinicians make it very clear that if we pass on plays like that, bad things could happen. I know I was at a camp in Texas and there was a play that I had the worst angle to call something and we all got admonished for not making a call that looked really bad and all of us passed on. And these are not plays that should be passed on. Something should be called with this much contact and players basically on the floor. Not all obvious fouls are game saving in nature.

Peace

Multiple Sports Thu Aug 08, 2013 01:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 902044)
I have had D1 clinicians make it very clear that if we pass on plays like that, bad things could happen. I know I was at a camp in Texas and there was a play that I had the worst angle to call something and we all got admonished for not making a call that looked really bad and all of us passed on. And these are not plays that should be passed on. Something should be called with this much contact and players basically on the floor. Not all obvious fouls are game saving in nature.

Peace

Rut -

Was this one of Curtis Shaw's camps ?????

AremRed Thu Aug 08, 2013 02:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 902043)
Arem -

I'm curious....what part of the country was this camp and was it men's or women's....

Midwest, men's camp.

I totally get what you mean. I would make this call as the T if my partner has a brain fart. I agree that calls like this should not be passed on, and hopefully my partner would be thankful.

However, a women's camp I went to (D1 officials, midwest) also told me the same thing. "If your partner passed on something in his area, he must have had a reason. Do not call outside your area unless it is a game saving call." For example, this no-call that the T could have saved.

JetMetFan Thu Aug 08, 2013 03:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 902049)
Midwest, men's camp.

I totally get what you mean. I would make this call as the T if my partner has a brain fart. I agree that calls like this should not be passed on, and hopefully my partner would be thankful.

However, a women's camp I went to (D1 officials, midwest) also told me the same thing. "If your partner passed on something in his area, he must have had a reason. Do not call outside your area unless it is a game saving call." For example, this no-call that the T could have saved.

The main thing would be the type of play your partner passed on. If there's an iffy play in his/her area, they let it go and then you come in and take it...that falls into the area of "trust your partner." As Jeff said, this is a case of bodies hitting the floor and it wasn't just incidental contact. Someone had to do something. It may/may not have been the right call but no whistle on that play is much worse. I have a feeling the officials you spoke with at the D1 women's camp would say the same thing.

On a side note...I worked with the L on play #1 at a camp in July. It took me a few times watching the video to realize it.

JRutledge Thu Aug 08, 2013 08:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 902046)
Rut -

Was this one of Curtis Shaw's camps ?????

Nope. I have never been to any of Shaw's camps.

Peace

AremRed Thu Aug 08, 2013 02:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 902052)
The main thing would be the type of play your partner passed on. If there's an iffy play in his/her area, they let it go and then you come in and take it...that falls into the area of "trust your partner." As Jeff said, this is a case of bodies hitting the floor and it wasn't just incidental contact. Someone had to do something. It may/may not have been the right call but no whistle on that play is much worse. I have a feeling the officials you spoke with at the D1 women's camp would say the same thing.

Yep, totally agree on this. However I am stuck trying to figure out why those guys didn't say this. I was surprised at how vehemently they told me never to call outside my areas.

Raymond Thu Aug 08, 2013 07:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 902097)
Yep, totally agree on this. However I am stuck trying to figure out why those guys didn't say this. I was surprised at how vehemently they told me never to call outside my areas.

Because it was camp.

Travelling Man Thu Aug 08, 2013 08:51pm

play 1: here's a common case where a "play on" could be justified, but the fact that bodies were splayed across the floor would compel a "charge" to be called given that the defender was in LGP--at least from the T's position--though I wondered why the L did not make the call?

Play 2: I agree with the "block" call.

thanks for posting this fine vid.

OKREF Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:12pm

Play 1. Block. Defense isn't in position prior to shooter leaving the floor.

Play 2. Charge. From the first angle it looks like a block. However from baseline, it seems the defense got to the spot first.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1