Who stays with the play ?

[tnroundballref]

Had something come up this weekend that I wasn't sure who was responsible for covering.3 man crew - Here is the play. I am @ T going from backcourt to front court and there is a steal by B2 then as B2 is going to the bucket A1 comes in and taps the ball away from B2 towards my sideline. B3 and A3 both head towards the loose ball which carries them both OB. A3 saves the ball to A4 who then heads back up court meanwhile the coach for team A lets me know A3 and B3 were involved in some extra curricular activity OB with B3 giving A3 a shove. My question is....who covers this play? Does T need to stay in backcourt with the players OB or stay with the ball and the 10 second count? The players actually ended up @ freethrow line extended in the backcourt, My partners and I discussed it after the game and kicked the idea around that C should have stayed with the play but we still weren't 100% sure. T could have stayed with the players OB and covered it much better than C but then we neglect ball action. Thoughts...comments?

[bigwhistle]

First of all, if you were T and then there was a steal going the other way, you don't have a sideline for the players to be going toward. You have an endline only, since you are now the new L. It is important to remember whose responsibilities are where.

Now to answer your question, the T heading back the other way (that would be you, old L becoming new T) has the responsibility of cleaning up the mess in the back court. The C can't afford to stay, since he will need to be assisting the L with the front court activity. By the T staying in the back court with the potential problem, the crew is still able to work the front court 2 person if needed.

The important thing is to go wherever the players make you go in order to maintain control of the game. All of the primaries and secondaries that are taught are guidelines that the players sometimes make impossible to maintain. As has been stated many times, getting the play right (or making sure that you are in position to see the problem areas) is the true important job of the crew.

[mick]

Originally posted by bigwhistle
By the T staying in the back court with the potential problem, the crew is still able to work the front court 2 person if needed.

Absolutely!
New T has to be on that activity.

[Kelvin green]

I agree what has been said 100%---

First ball was in your primary and you have two players back there-- Who would officiate them if it was not you---

This shows a key to officating- Never let players get behind you where you cant se them--- Sometime this is not easy to do but if a team is shooting FT's and they have two guards near the midcourt- I will back up and be a little wider to watch

Never let players stay behinbd you on a press or anything like that--

Players go into the bleachers-
Two players go to the floor and get just tangled up you gotta stay with them-- That's where you'll have the problems- even in a two person crew-- one may have to ref going to the other end while one stays with 2

The other thing to consider-- it was a quick steal how long do you think they will stay in the backcourt? If you miss it--- so what you pick it up as soon as you can-- If it's late you tell the coach you stayed with the tangled players-- No big deal

My two cents

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by bigwhistle
First of all, if you were T and then there was a steal going the other way, you don't have a sideline for the players to be going toward. You have an endline only, since you are now the new L.

This is true for FED and NCAA, but is not true for NBA court coverage. It might also not be true for FIBA, I don't know about that.

Other than that, I agree with everything bigwhistle said.

[Mark Dexter]

Rule of thumb here:

If you miss a 10 second call, a few people are going to be upset for a few seconds.

If you miss a shove that everyone else in the gym saw . . . . . . .

[Malcolm Tucker]

There are many instances where the manual does not give a solution and by instinct a good official knows what is the important thing to do.

You never leave opposing players without at least one set of eyes on them and especially when there has been a contest for the ball as described as almost certainly there will be some one who feels aggrieved.

Your role changed from trail to lead and eventually back to trail an as the trail official you should have stayed with the players OOB. The other two officals realising that you were out of the main play could have monentarily treated it as a two man situation until you could have rejoined the main play. This may have been less than ten seconds and the shove may only have needed a stern warning or maybe not but you have to see it to decide.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Rule of thumb here:

If you miss a 10 second call, a few people are going to be upset for a few seconds.

If you miss a shove that everyone else in the gym saw . . . . . . .

Right on, Mark! This is the most important comment. Short and to the point. Keep control of the players, prevent a fight, screw the little violation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by bigwhistle
First of all, if you were T and then there was a steal going the other way, you don't have a sideline for the players to be going toward. You have an endline only, since you are now the new L. It is important to remember whose responsibilities are where.

I'll disagree....The new lead should continue to cover the sideline until the new trail is in position to cover the line. The new trail rarely picks up on a steal the instant it happens and is often not in a position to cover the line if they are covering the post action. It's only for a couple of seconds but the new lead can't leave the line uncovered just because the new trail has responsibility.

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

I'll disagree....The new lead should continue to cover the sideline until the new trail is in position to cover the line. The new trail rarely picks up on a steal the instant it happens and is often not in a position to cover the line if they are covering the post action. It's only for a couple of seconds but the new lead can't leave the line uncovered just because the new trail has responsibility.

Cameron,

Maybe it is just a matter of semantics, but the T becoming new L does not have that responsibility. His responsibility is the baseline. That being said, there is nothing wrong with him "giving assistance" to the new T until the new T gets into a position where he can cover his area of responsibility.

[mick]

Originally posted by bigwhistle

Cameron,

Maybe it is just a matter of semantics, but the T becoming new L does not have that responsibility. His responsibility is the baseline. That being said, there is nothing wrong with him "giving assistance" to the new T until the new T gets into a position where he can cover his area of responsibility.

bigwhistle,
I believe, in this transition, the New Lead must be responsible for the side line in front of him until he gets to the endline, and until New Trail is solidly in position. There should be a shared responsiblility for that long transition side line, and, too, we cannot expect the New Lead to cover the ball and the sideline behind him.

The sideline behind New Lead has to belong to New Trail who had absolutely nothing else to do during that play but to "mop up". What else is the New Trail to do?
New Trail (as Lead) was on ball when the initial attack was made on B2. New Trail already was in the area of the two players going out of bounds, and New Trail had to be closing on those two players as he made his transition.

If the New Lead hesitates to check out the result of contact on the side line, then the Center sure as heck has his hands full.
mick

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by bigwhistle

Cameron,

Maybe it is just a matter of semantics, but the T becoming new L does not have that responsibility. His responsibility is the baseline. That being said, there is nothing wrong with him "giving assistance" to the new T until the new T gets into a position where he can cover his area of responsibility.

I thinks its not a difference in semantics but a difference in practice. I'll agree with you that, by the book, the new lead has NO responsibility for the sideline once the turnover/steal has occured. However, if there is immediately another action that causes the player/ball to go OOB right in front of me as the new lead, I'll make that call every time even though it's technically the new trail's line.

This is not unlike the new lead covering the entire 3-point arc on a fast break. The new lead official has essentialy EVERYTHING on the steal/break, especially in two-man. The new trail is usually too far out of the play to call anything.

[mick]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
However, if there is immediately another action that causes the player/ball to go OOB right in front of me as the new lead, I'll make that call every time even though it's technically the new trail's line.

Camron,
Which way you facin'?

Backward - yer late !

Sideways - yer ball hawkin'!

Forward - yer late !

I agree, with you. If you see it, go git it.
mick

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
However, if there is immediately another action that causes the player/ball to go OOB right in front of me as the new lead, I'll make that call every time even though it's technically the new trail's line.

Not a bad double-whistle situation, especially if it's one of those quick transitions...

Bottom line: make sure you pre-game it.

[mick]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Bottom line: make sure you pre-game it.

I would never think of pre-gaming that sitch unless I write it down right now.
Oops! ...Nothing to write on....