Question: Charges vs. Blocks

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rsl

Don't learn your rules from coaches.

Idea for a tattoo (above). Or, at least, write it one hundred times on a blackboard after school.

Note to young'uns: You can "Google" blackboard if you don't know what it is.

[RangeGunner]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is all wonderful, but you were just quoted the rule be NevadaRef.

And I have never seen a player duck out of the way and undercut a single player in my nearly 20 years of officiating as you imply is the concern.

I also could not let this go either. There is no such thing as a reach in. You have got a lot of reading to do.

Peace

I was typing my post while NevadaRef posted his so I did not see it before I submitted mine.

Secondly, a "reach in" is not a foul... I know... but the layman's term for when a player does and makes contact. I'm not here to be a lawyer. I'm here to understand the rule and explain why it doesn't make sense and hopefully have it make sense. So, I was saying that this moving shoulder was the first thing to make contact against the approaching offensive player. That's all.

As for ducking, I'm not that tall (5'11) and I play with guys that are 5 to 9 inches taller and quite athletic. Any lowering of my body could cause such a player to unnecessarily rotate in the air. Heck, I could undercut some of these guys standing straight up.

All politics aside, I thank the non-angry posters for their informative responses. I thank NevadaRef for his research. Basically, I now know the full rule even though knowing how to apply it is beyond my knowledge.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RangeGunner

I was typing my post while NevadaRef posted his so I did not see it before I submitted mine.

Secondly, a "reach in" is not a foul... I know... but the layman's term for when a player does and makes contact. I'm not here to be a lawyer. I'm here to understand the rule and explain why it doesn't make sense and hopefully have it make sense. So, I was saying that this moving shoulder was the first thing to make contact against the approaching offensive player. That's all.

As for ducking, I'm not that tall (5'11) and I play with guys that are 5 to 9 inches taller and quite athletic. Any lowering of my body could cause such a player to unnecessarily rotate in the air. Heck, I could undercut some of these guys standing straight up.

All politics aside, I thank the non-angry posters for their informative responses. I thank NevadaRef for his research. Basically, I now know the full rule even though knowing how to apply it is beyond my knowledge.

Basically, as long as the defender doesn't significantly move into the offensive player by turning his shoulder, he should be fine. Is it better to take it in the chest? Absolutely, it makes the call easier, quite frankly.

I have called a player control foul when the defender practically turned around to absorb the contact. Offensive coach about had his head explode (his team was way out of control, and this was about the fourth offensive foul we called).

the trick is knowing when a player is ducking to absorb contact and when he is ducking to trip the opponent.

The problem with coaches (even those who "used to officiate") is so much of the rules they know just aren't so.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by RangeGunner

As for ducking, I'm not that tall (5'11) and I play with guys that are 5 to 9 inches taller and quite athletic. Any lowering of my body could cause such a player to unnecessarily rotate in the air. Heck, I could undercut some of these guys standing straight up.

So we're in the same, average height boat. Usually if someone is undercutting a player it's obvious (to us, at least).

Even if you weren't "set" the rules prevent the offense from just mauling a defender, like kicking his/her foot out or putting a hard forearm into the defender's chest. Again, those would be obvious enough that anyone could see it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RangeGunner

.As for ducking, I'm not that tall (5'11) and I play with guys that are 5 to 9 inches taller and quite athletic. Any lowering of my body could cause such a player to unnecessarily rotate in the air. Heck, I could undercut some of these guys standing straight up.
...

If you think about it, if a defender ducks that would move his upper torso (importantly his head and face) TOWARDS the airborne player. This would not be a way for a defender to protect himself and it also takes the defender outside of his vertical plane.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

So basically this is what the conversation sounded like...?

Yep!

I love it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If you think about it, if a defender ducks that would move his upper torso (importantly his head and face) TOWARDS the airborne player. This would not be a way for a defender to protect himself and it also takes the defender outside of his vertical plane.

That is not the manner of ducking I am envisioning. I see it being done in a way that turns the defender away from the impact while also lowering themselves.