To be (dead) or not to be (dead) that is the question.

[Sharpshooternes]

Had a P call a common foul right after a basket was made but before the ball was brought back into play. I don't think he realized that the ball went through the basket which I informed him of. Reading def 6-7 ART. 1

The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when:

A goal, as in 5‐1 is made.

In this scenario, what should happen?

A. Count the bucket. Report the foul. Give ball to non offending team at spot closest to foul without ability to "run the endline". OR

B. Count the bucket, wave off the foul as it was a common foul and not intentional or flagrant during a dead ball, and give the ball to the non scoring team for a throw in anywhere along the endline as if after a made basket.

[Nevadaref]

The rules tell you that option B is correct.
Can't understand why someone would want to go against the rules and select option A.

[HokiePaul]

Without a lengthy discussion, how do you know for sure that the foul occurred "right after" as opposed to "right before" the basket was made?

I'm probably trusting my partner and assuming that the foul occurred before the ball went through, even if the whistle was delayed slightly. If there is significant doubt, I guess I might run over real quick and say something like "ball went in; just wanted to make sure that you had the foul before the ball went through the basket", but if he goes to report the foul, I'm not arguing that it occurred after the ball went through (since I was not the calling official).

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Without a lengthy discussion, how do you know for sure that the foul occurred "right after" as opposed to "right before" the basket was made?

I'm probably trusting my partner and assuming that the foul occurred before the ball went through, even if the whistle was delayed slightly. If there is significant doubt, I guess I might run over real quick and say something like "ball went in; just wanted to make sure that you had the foul before the ball went through the basket", but if he goes to report the foul, I'm not arguing that it occurred after the ball went through (since I was not the calling official).

In this scenario my partner said that it was after the ball went through. And yes, I meant before the ball was at the disposal of the thrower. Ball passes through net, foul, ball hits the ground, whistle, ball then at disposal of the thrower.

i guess my real overall question is that my P said that the ball can't be dead after a made basket because the clock is still running. I disagreed.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

i guess my real overall question is that my P said that the ball can't be dead after a made basket because the clock is still running. I disagreed.

This is funny, you might want to introduce your partner to a rule book or ask him if he is unable to read.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

In this scenario my partner said that it was after the ball went through. And yes, I meant before the ball was at the disposal of the thrower. Ball passes through net, foul, ball hits the ground, whistle, ball then at disposal of the thrower.

i guess my real overall question is that my P said that the ball can't be dead after a made basket because the clock is still running. I disagreed.

Does he also believe that the ball can't be live when the clock is stopped?

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Does he also believe that the ball can't be live when the clock is stopped?

I wouldn't be surprised. He was also telling me that you can't have a charge when the defender is under the basket (HS rules) and that it should be a no call.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

...
i guess my real overall question is that my P said that the ball can't be dead after a made basket because the clock is still running. I disagreed.

Not a matter of disagreeing. Your partner is wrong by rule.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

...but before the ball was brought back into play.

The ball becomes live again when it is as the disposal of the team that is making the throw-in. That is before (and sometimes well before) the ball is "brought back into play."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Lotto

The ball becomes live again when it is as the disposal of the team that is making the throw-in. That is before (and sometimes well before) the ball is "brought back into play."

Unless by "into play," he meant "at the disposal." I agree, though, the phrasing is a bit vague and begs for a more clear description of the timing. Also, as HokiePaul alluded to, it would have to be pretty clear that the ball was dead.

It may well have been clear, there are plenty of fouls that both officials see.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Lotto

The ball becomes live again when it is as the disposal of the team that is making the throw-in.

Originally Posted by Adam

Unless by "into play," he meant "at the disposal." I agree, though, the phrasing is a bit vague and begs for a more clear description of the timing.

If the new trail is counting five seconds, then the ball is at the disposal. It's one of those "looping arguments" that some of here on the Forum like to use occasionally. Counting equals disposal, and disposal equals counting. How do you know that the ball is at the disposal? Because you're counting. How do you know when to start counting? When the ball is at the disposal.