Multiple Foul

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

By rule, you'd be wrong...

4-19...A foul is an infraction of the rules which is charged and is penalized.

Maybe it should have been a foul but by rule it wasn't since it wasn't charged and penalized.

I honestly think you're getting into semantics now.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

I honestly think you're getting into semantics now.

No, just another smoke screen by an official who won't admit they pass on what, by rule, should be called a multiple foul.

[just another ref]

Everybody here says you must report both fouls on a blarge "because of the case play." (that's not even what the case play says but that's another argument)


The case play for a multiple foul is infinitely more clear cut, and it actually has a corresponding rule in the book which says the same thing, while a blarge does not.

But you never call a multiple foul. Why? Just cuz. There is no other reason.



If you feel you must call the blarge, by all means do so, but a case play alone is obviously not reason enough.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No, just another smoke screen by an official who won't admit they pass on what, by rule, should be called a multiple foul.

No. Every single contact situation is a judgement of whether a foul has been committed or not. If you chose not to call it, it is simply not a foul at all even if someone else would have called it. We can find plenty of situations where one official would call something a foul while another would not, having judged it to be incidental. In one case, it is a foul. In the other, it isn't. The fact that calling would make it a multiple foul doesn't change that.

The only other alternative is that you're saying that you call every single contact a foul and that you never judge some contact to be incidental.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

No. Every single contact situation is a judgement of whether a foul has been committed or not. If you chose not to call it, it is simply not a foul at all even if someone else would have called it. We can find plenty of situations where one official would call something a foul while another would not, having judged it to be incidental. In one case, it is a foul. In the other, it isn't. The fact that calling would make it a multiple foul doesn't change that.

The only other alternative is that you're saying that you call every single contact a foul and that you never judge some contact to be incidental.

More smoke and mirrors. Bottomline is that you just don't have the courage to call multiple fouls.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

More smoke and mirrors. Bottomline is that you just don't have the courage to call multiple fouls.

I don't recall Camron making the claim that anyone else should call them either. I've only seen that claim from one member.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

I don't recall Camron making the claim that anyone else should call them either. I've only seen that claim from one member.

Well, that one member would obviously state the Camron does not have courage. Since he is 3 hours behind me I just want to accelerate the process.

[Nevadaref]

Am I late?

Since I've had the opportunity to meet Camron in person and have a great deal of respect for him, rather than speculate I believe that it would best to just ask him directly what he would do on the court in such a situation.

Let's set the scenario and state a few givens.
A1 drives and during the act of shooting is whacked on the arm by B1. The Lead official observes this action and whistles immediately for a foul.
A1 goes airborne and releases the ball. Just after the release and prior to A1 returning to the floor B2 comes from the C's side of the lane and while attempting to block the shot swings late and strikes the shooter in the head.
The C judges this action to be a foul. Now you are the C. Do you blow the whistle or not? If so, how do you proceed with you partner in the Lead position?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

No. Every single contact situation is a judgement of whether a foul has been committed or not. If you chose not to call it, it is simply not a foul at all even if someone else would have called it. We can find plenty of situations where one official would call something a foul while another would not, having judged it to be incidental. In one case, it is a foul. In the other, it isn't. The fact that calling would make it a multiple foul doesn't change that.

The only other alternative is that you're saying that you call every single contact a foul and that you never judge some contact to be incidental.

No, the other alternative is acknowledging that even if I didn't call something, it was still could have been a foul. Maybe I didn't call it because I didn't see it. Maybe I didn't all it because I judged it to be incidental. I make mistakes in judgment. I've called fouls that weren't, and I've no-called plays that were fouls.

[Toren]

that multiple fouls were a good idea?

I can't even imagine a coach bringing that up and other coaches agreeing to it. Especially if they considered how this would effect their team when it was called on them.

I think if this was made a point of emphasis and we called it for 1 regular season, the rule would be eliminated.

Or we would start hearing complaints from coaches, like "Look I know you called that foul, but his teammate also fouled him. That's a multiple foul by rule and we should be shooting 6 free throws cause it was a 3 point shot"

To which we'd have to explain how many free throws a multiple foul gives, plus explaining why we didn't have one on this play.

Originally Posted by Toren

that multiple fouls were a good idea?

Well the coaches are the ones voting on the rules right?

Simple fix: award a one-shot, no possession technical for dead ball contact. The real penalty for a technical should be fear of ejection/disqualification, not two shots and the ball.

[APG]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Well the coaches are the ones voting on the rules right?

Simple fix: award a one-shot, no possession technical for dead ball contact. The real penalty for a technical should be fear of ejection/disqualification, not two shots and the ball.

Won't happen in high school in the near future...they WANT the added (potential) penalty of loss of possession...just like they also include the loss of the coaching box on (in)directs on the coach.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Toren

that multiple fouls were a good idea?

I can't even imagine a coach bringing that up and other coaches agreeing to it. Especially if they considered how this would effect their team when it was called on them.

It must exist so that the 2nd player doesn't feel like they can get a free shot....or two players creating excessive contact. Even if you call them intentional, they would still be multiples.