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-   -   Gonzaga / Southern video (Added) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/94445-gonzaga-southern-video-added.html)

JRutledge Sat Mar 23, 2013 06:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judtech (Post 886271)
I try to do what makes my Supervisor happy!:D

Good. And since I have several of them and a state organization I answer to on two different fronts, I do not see anyone from those positions telling me that this situation would result in a double foul. We all have different masters to answer to.

Peace

Judtech Sat Mar 23, 2013 06:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 886273)
Good. And since I have several of them and a state organization I answer to on two different fronts, I do not see anyone from those positions telling me that this situation would result in a double foul. We all have different masters to answer to.

Peace

One of mine would say 'That will learn you to give a preliminary'. Another would say 'Get together and figure it out'

Raymond Sat Mar 23, 2013 06:47pm

This is what I know:

Rick Schnur, James Barker, and crew chief Teddy Valentine judged/determined/pre-gamed that merely putting 2 fists in the air does not constitute a block mechanic on a double-whistle crash.

Each one of us is free to pre-game this scenario in our contests and ajudicate it differently. Just b/c you would handle it differently doesn't make what these 3 officials did wrong.

Raymond Sat Mar 23, 2013 06:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judtech (Post 886269)
Show me the rule supporting your position? I may have missed the 'When a preliminary is really a preliminary' section.

You won't find it which makes it a situation that falls to the discretion of the crew working that particular day in that particular game.

icallfouls Sat Mar 23, 2013 07:58pm

I think it is safe to say that we all have seen or been involved in a B/C play where 2 officials have different calls. Neither has given a preliminary, there is a 50/50 chance for either call and one official takes the call. They report the charge. The coach says to the other you official "you had a block, tell him."

In this case the L official yields to the T official, therefore it was never a Blarge. That is what happened here.

The only people who are discussing it at all are OFFICIALS, because the actions are TYPICAL - not 100% - of calling a block. No one (media, fans, teams) is complaining that the call should've been because it looked like the L was going to call something else. It is likely the coaches, players, and a hand full of fans noticed. But I can tell you just as many don't know they had different calls. Just ask my parents, sisters, brother-in-laws, wife and kids and the others at Buffalo Wild Wings that had no clue.

When it comes to their evaluations the L did not receive an ICC and the T got a CC.

cmb Sat Mar 23, 2013 08:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 886300)
I think it is safe to say that we all have seen or been involved in a B/C play where 2 officials have different calls. Neither has given a preliminary, there is a 50/50 chance for either call and one official takes the call. They report the charge. The coach says to the other you official "you had a block, tell him."

In this case the L official yields to the T official, therefore it was never a Blarge. That is what happened here.

The only people who are discussing it at all are OFFICIALS, because the actions are TYPICAL - not 100% - of calling a block. No one (media, fans, teams) is complaining that the call should've been because it looked like the L was going to call something else. It is likely the coaches, players, and a hand full of fans noticed. But I can tell you just as many don't know they had different calls. Just ask my parents, sisters, brother-in-laws, wife and kids and the others at Buffalo Wild Wings that had no clue.

When it comes to their evaluations the L did not receive an ICC and the T got a CC.


Well the commentators picked up on it right away, so your family became aware of it even if they didn't know right away.

junruh07 Sat Mar 23, 2013 08:23pm

There was another one with 6:20 to go in the first half of the WSU-Gonzaga game. They wen't with PC, but I couldn't really see if that was right or not.

cmb Sat Mar 23, 2013 08:25pm

WOW! This exact same play just happened again in the Wichita St./Gonzaga game somewhere in the 6:xx mark of the game. John Higgins (L) comes up with two hands (fists) as Mike Stuart (C) is sending it the other way. It's an epidemic! :D

icallfouls Sat Mar 23, 2013 08:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmb (Post 886309)
WOW! This exact same play just happened again in the Wichita St./Gonzaga game somewhere in the 6:xx mark of the game. John Higgins (L) comes up with two hands (fists) as Mike Stuart (C) is sending it the other way. It's an epidemic! :D

Good communication prevented another Blarge. Apparently Stuart and Higgins don't consider 2 hands up a preliminary for a Block, otherwise they would have gone with the double foul. I think we are in good company. :)

junruh07 Sat Mar 23, 2013 08:45pm

I am also pretty sure that Mike Stuart is on the Butler-Marquette game.

cmb Sat Mar 23, 2013 08:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by junruh07 (Post 886315)
I am also pretty sure that Mike Stuart is on the Butler-Marquette game.

Yep. My bad. It was John Gaffney.

JRutledge Sat Mar 23, 2013 09:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 886313)
Good communication prevented another Blarge. Apparently Stuart and Higgins don't consider 2 hands up a preliminary for a Block, otherwise they would have gone with the double foul. I think we are in good company. :)

As I said before, only on this board is this even a discussion.

Peace

zm1283 Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:30pm

I don't know how you could interpret the Lead's actions as anything else than a block signal in progress that the Trail stops. Everyone arguing differently simply wants to defend the officials at all costs.

This was a barge.

JRutledge Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 886423)
I don't know how you could interpret the Lead's actions as anything else than a block signal in progress that the Trail stops. Everyone arguing differently simply wants to defend the officials at all costs.

This was a barge.

Like I have said before, show us where a rule or interpretation suggests that any movement is considered a "signal" and then you can make that ruling with great confidence. Otherwise you are giving your personal opinion that no one off this site would be likely having. Absolutely never heard this argument a day in my career before and we have talked about these situations many times before. Also many of us that you claim are defending the official at all costs often have criticized other officials for other things, so that holds little to no water either.

Peace

Camron Rust Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:54pm

What it boils down to is that the NCAA has declared that once a conflicting call has been made known by showing what you have, you can''t cancel one of them. They didn't say you have to completely show it, just that it be shown. If you know what he had, it was shown.

There was a great example of it being done right at around the 15min mark of Butler/Marq. The C merely raised his fist and nothing more while the L took the call. The C may or may not have had something different but he didn't show any indication of what he had and it was over. That is how it should be done. Show "nothing".


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