2013 IHSA 2A Boys' Final...Ballgame99's Plays to Consider

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Would love to get some input on a couple crashes. This crew seemed to struggle with PC/block/NC all day. Check these out:
7:38 of 3rd (1:29 on video) - looks like a good NC on minimal contact
6:55 of 3rd (1:30.20 on video)- looks like a block to me, they NC it.
2:57 of 3rd (1:40.3)- looks like block or NC to me (contact on outside of shoulder) but they PC it
1:30 of 3rd - good no call
4:55 of 4th (1:54)- NC on what looks like a PC but needs a whistle IMO.
4:16 of 4th (1:57)- PC looked like a block or NC (contact on outside of shoulder)

[Raymond]

1: flop
2: block
3: good PC
4: TRAVEL. Apparently HS refs let this travel go all the time. It is ruining the game.
5: PC
6: Good PC

Got to call the crashes when a team's strategy is to draw charges. Contact to the shoulder does not make the defender any less legal.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

1: flop
2: block
3: good PC
4: TRAVEL. Apparently HS refs let this travel go all the time. It is ruining the game.
5: PC
6: Good PC

Agree on all but 5, I think Blue 22 readjusted his position (sliding slightly to his left) while White 21 was in the air. Block, but I probably would not catch it real-time.

[Adam]

I agree with BNR (I would have had the travel).

On #5, I don't think the defender moves into the path, he's already in it and adjusts slightly within the path, so I'm not penalizing him by calling a block.

[JetMetFan]

I got a little skeptical when I saw plays 3 and 6 in real-time because the defender went down as though he was hit by a sniper rifle. I'm not saying they're not PCs but I'm saying I might have passed on them since the force with which he hit the deck didn't seem to match the force of the contact, which would've made me think he flopped.

The last two plays go towards the consistency factor I mentioned in the other play string. To have nothing on #5 then come back 35 seconds later and have a call on #6 probably had both benches on edge. Also, the no-call on #2, combined with two of the block/charge no-calls in the other play string in the first half. Again, the crew had a problematic night dealing with airborne shooters.

[icallfouls]

flop
flop
no call
no call
charge - offense spread legs so that either leg was on each side of defender then goes through
no call

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

flop
flop
no call
no call
charge - offense spread legs so that either leg was on each side of defender then goes through
no call

You should change your handle to inocallfouls

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Adam

I agree with BNR (I would have had the travel).

On #5, I don't think the defender moves into the path, he's already in it and adjusts slightly within the path, so I'm not penalizing him by calling a block.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by icallfouls

flop
flop
no call
no call
charge - offense spread legs so that either leg was on each side of defender then goes through
no call

I'd like to hear rationale for why moving toward and under an airborne shooter resulting in that much contact is a no-call.

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I got a little skeptical when I saw plays 3 and 6 in real-time because the defender went down as though he was hit by a sniper rifle. I'm not saying they're not PCs but I'm saying I might have passed on them since the force with which he hit the deck didn't seem to match the force of the contact, which would've made me think he flopped.

On #3 there seems like a little embellishment but still clearly a PC IMO. On play #6 it looks like he got rtfo. Not seeing it there.

And for ballgame99 I'd like to know what you see the defender doing wrong to consider blocks on plays #3 and #6. I think you and icallfouls need tutorials on refereeing the defense bases on your responses here.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

flop
flop
no call
no call
charge - offense spread legs so that either leg was on each side of defender then goes through
no call

I can see all of those except the #4.

#4 is a travel anyway you cut it. He moved both feet after he clearly caught the ball. It might be missed in many games, but that doesn't make it not a travel.

#1-3 and #6 are all flops or exaggerations.

In #6, you can, if you slow it down more or pause it at the right time, actually see the defender's entire torso still 100% vertical after the shooter's torso passed by it before the defender even moves. The shooter didn't go through him.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In #6, you can, if you slow it down more or pause it at the right time, actually see the defender's entire torso still 100% vertical after the shooter's torso passed by it before the defender even moves. The shooter didn't go through him.

That's what I was seeing on #3 and, more so, #6. Not that he has to get RTFO but Blue #11 doesn't move backwards on contact in either of those plays. He actually drops straight down on the spot. The only play where Blue #11 actually moves backwards on "contact" is the flop in #1.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I can see all of those except the #4.

#4 is a travel anyway you cut it. He moved both feet after he clearly caught the ball. It might be missed in many games, but that doesn't make it not a travel.

#1-3 and #6 are all flops or exaggerations.

In #6, you can, if you slow it down more or pause it at the right time, actually see the defender's entire torso still 100% vertical after the shooter's torso passed by it before the defender even moves. The shooter didn't go through him.

#4 - At first glance I did not see the travel, but ok, I think it is a little too close to call a full speed. Give me an ICNC.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

1: flop
2: block
3: good PC
4: TRAVEL. Apparently HS refs let this travel go all the time. It is ruining the game.
5: PC
6: Good PC

Got to call the crashes when a team's strategy is to draw charges. Contact to the shoulder does not make the defender any less legal.

I agree with everyone but #4, only because it is an issue to me when he controls or gathers the ball. I think I would pass on this play as tight as it is. Only on replay would have have real doubt.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

More news:

Seton-Harrisburg: Bitter end still isn't in sight - chicagotribune.com

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

More news:

Seton-Harrisburg: Bitter end still isn't in sight - chicagotribune.com

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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

have to be a subscriber to read

hmm -- i'm not a subscriber and I read it.