Actionless Contest

[Fed2You]

Utah 5A boys semi-finals. 1st qtr is going along fine till about half way through, after a timeout. Team A inbounds the ball and passes to the PG standing just inside his frontcourt.....and he proceeds to stand there for the next 3 1/2 minutes. Team B is in a 2-3 zone and won't come out. Crowd was booing to beat all heck. Team A finally tries for the last shot of the quarter and misses.

2nd quarter, Team A's ball on AP. SAME EXACT THING. The entire 2nd quarter was squandered until Team A tried for the final shot of the half and missed. Score: 14-7, Team B up. Thankfully, 3rd and 4th quarters were normal and Team B beat the wheels off of Team A.

Hopefully Utah will have a shot clock next year, at least for Regionals and beyond because of this. I've never seen anything like it. As a fan i was pissed. As a ref, I would have been incredibly frustrated. Seems like there should be something we can do, but which team has the onus to force action? Bring in the shot clock!

[johnny d]

Be careful what you wish for. Nothing can screw up a game like a bad shot clock operator. Based on the lack of competence that some of the score keepers and regular timers we have working around here, I hope we dont ever get a shot clock.

[APG]

As an official, I'd prefer not to work a game like that...but hey, if you're going to pay me X amount of dollars to stand and watch y'all not play basketball, then whatever.

If I had to drop money to watch that though? I'd be pissed. That **** ain't basketball to me.

And there's no way a state would force the shot clock during the playoffs...the shot clock dramatically alters style of play...not something you can spring on teams toward the end of the season.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by APG

As an official, I'd prefer not to work a game like that...but hey, if you're going to pay me X amount of dollars to stand and watch y'all not play basketball, then whatever.

Had it happen to me once for a VG game. As the T I was where the girl was holding the ball. I just kept thinking - cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching!

[Bad Zebra]

For the relatively few times this occurs, I wouldn't alter the rule book. Yes it stinks as a fan. Yes, it's frustrating as an official. But it's hardly become common enough to warrant a rule change.

Everybody comes across these games occasionally. I've seen it where there's a big disparity between size or speed for a team. The lesser team will try it to either slow the game down to their level or frustrate the other team into commiting dumb fouls. That being said, I've NEVER seen it work successfully for an entire game. I'd love to hear if anyone else has ever seen it used successfully.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I've seen it where there's a big disparity between size or speed for a team.

Since a team can't recruit (at least most teams; and at least not to the level of college), and since the game isn't (all) about "entertainment", a team should be able to emply this strategy to give them the best chance of winning.

Add that to the cost, and the errors we find with the shot-clock operators, and put me down as a strong NO vote on the shot clock for HS ball.

Now, when it does happen, I think that one of the referees should get with the coaches to see how long theyplan to use this strategy and just shorten the period.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

For the relatively few times this occurs, I wouldn't alter the rule book. Yes it stinks as a fan. Yes, it's frustrating as an official. But it's hardly become common enough to warrant a rule change.

Everybody comes across these games occasionally. I've seen it where there's a big disparity between size or speed for a team. The lesser team will try it to either slow the game down to their level or frustrate the other team into commiting dumb fouls. That being said, I've NEVER seen it work successfully for an entire game. I'd love to hear if anyone else has ever seen it used successfully.

Milan vs Muncie Central, 1954 Indiana State Championship Game is a famous example.

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by APG

And there's no way a state would force the shot clock during the playoffs...the shot clock dramatically alters style of play...not something you can spring on teams toward the end of the season.

Agree. Wouldn't be fair to coaches/players/officials. Full season or not at all.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Agree. Wouldn't be fair to coaches/players/officials. Full season or not at all.

From our standpoint, it's tough enough for some to switch from two-person to three-person when the playoffs roll around. Adding in the worries of a shot-clock at the most important time of the season would be ugly waiting to happen.

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Be careful what you wish for. Nothing can screw up a game like a bad shot clock operator. Based on the lack of competence that some of the score keepers and regular timers we have working around here, I hope we dont ever get a shot clock.

Worse they might bring back the "Lack of Sufficient Action" Rule

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Be careful what you wish for. Nothing can screw up a game like a bad shot clock operator. Based on the lack of competence that some of the score keepers and regular timers we have working around here, I hope we dont ever get a shot clock.

Especially one who thinks that he knows all of the rules.

[stripes]

Originally Posted by Fed2You

Utah 5A boys semi-finals. 1st qtr is going along fine till about half way through, after a timeout. Team A inbounds the ball and passes to the PG standing just inside his frontcourt.....and he proceeds to stand there for the next 3 1/2 minutes. Team B is in a 2-3 zone and won't come out. Crowd was booing to beat all heck. Team A finally tries for the last shot of the quarter and misses.

2nd quarter, Team A's ball on AP. SAME EXACT THING. The entire 2nd quarter was squandered until Team A tried for the final shot of the half and missed. Score: 14-7, Team B up. Thankfully, 3rd and 4th quarters were normal and Team B beat the wheels off of Team A.

Hopefully Utah will have a shot clock next year, at least for Regionals and beyond because of this. I've never seen anything like it. As a fan i was pissed. As a ref, I would have been incredibly frustrated. Seems like there should be something we can do, but which team has the onus to force action? Bring in the shot clock!

I could not disagree more with the need for a shot clock. The second half proved that Brighton could not keep up with Lone Peak. Their only chance (in the coach's eyes) was to shorten the game. Brighton went into halftime only down 7...that is a lot better than most teams who played LP this season. If Brighton would have been forced to shoot every 30-45 seconds, they stood no chance. I support the use a shot clock in college. Coaches are paid to bring in good players. In Utah HS bball, coaches cannot do this and a shot clock, IMO, makes the rich richer. Teams with less talent become even less talented with the shot clock.

I was one of the three officials working the game and it was boring, but I have NO PROBLEM with the decision to hold the ball.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by stripes

I could not disagree more with the need for a shot clock. The second half proved that Brighton could not keep up with Lone Peak. Their only chance (in the coach's eyes) was to shorten the game. Brighton went into halftime only down 7...that is a lot better than most teams who played LP this season. If Brighton would have been forced to shoot every 30-45 seconds, they stood no chance. I support the use a shot clock in college. Coaches are paid to bring in good players. In Utah HS bball, coaches cannot do this and a shot clock, IMO, makes the rich richer. Teams with less talent become even less talented with the shot clock.

I was one of the three officials working the game and it was boring, but I have NO PROBLEM with the decision to hold the ball.

Great point. I sat next to a lady a number of years ago whose son was the 6-8 star of a team that was playing my old high school. My alma mater had nobody taller than 6-1 and the visitors had a couple other players 6-5. The home team stalled and ended up losing 28-20. Gave up a couple of late buckets. The lady complained the entire time. Her kid wasn't able to hit his 25 point average that night, I guess. But, beating that team would have made the home team eligible for the state tournament, so the strategy was the absolute correct one to use.

Play tight man to man defense, and it won't be an issue. Can't play tight man to man? Not anyone else's problem.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Play tight man to man defense, and it won't be an issue. Can't play tight man to man? Not anyone else's problem.

There it is. I'm usually amused by the booing, which typically comes from the defensive team's contingent. Little do they realize they're half the problem.

Fortunately, we only saw the stall-ball once in our tourney. (Easton/Hodgdon, for Gapper's interest.) Of course, the cries for the shot clock come, but considering a shot comes every 16 seconds, on average, I don't see the point.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bainsey

There it is. I'm usually amused by the booing, which typically comes from the defensive team's contingent. Little do they realize they're half the problem.

They're all the problem, IMO. They could force the issue, but don't.