DVBOA...Phantom travels

[bob jenkins]

1) Travel RF was pivot, then he stepped forward with it. Official seemed to call travel for lifting and replacing left foot -- I'm not sure left foot left the ground.

2) Probably not a travel. I think left foot was pivot and didn't come off ground on the spin move.

3) Depends on whether official thinks it was a jump stop. Right foot land just before left, and then there's a step with the right. BY a strict interpretation of the book, it's a travel. If you make some small allowance, it's a jump stop and a legal pivot.

[twocentsworth]

NONE of these plays were travels. Classic cases of officials not finding the pivot on the catch/gather.

[JRutledge]

I am not convinced that any of these are travels. Certainly not obvious by any means.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not convinced that any of these are travels. Certainly not obvious by any means.

Peace

Oh, believe me, I know they're not obvious in any way. Heck, on at least one of them I had to watch it full screen twice to see it (I think it was #3). I just wish the "phantom-ness" was a little more apparent.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Oh, believe me, I know they're not obvious in any way. I just think if an association is going to post plays about phantom travels it's probably a good idea to get plays where the "phantom-ness" is a little more apparent.

I think the title was for affect only.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I just wish the "phantom-ness" was a little more apparent.

... and then it wouldn't be a phantom (something apparently seen, heard, or sensed, but having no physical reality).



(I love it when the chandelier crashes.)

[Camron Rust]

All three are travels. The only one that is hard to see with the given video angle is the post move.

#1. Ball caught with right foot down and left foot up. The left foot immediately comes down making the right foot the pivot. The right foot is lifted and moved to a new spot. Not a big travel, but a travel.

#2. Ball is caught with his right foot on the floor in the top lane space. He steps forward with his left foot making the right the pivot. The right is the lifted and he steps forward again on the right (the travel) before spinning back to the left.

#3. Ball caught in the air and landed right-left-right. Travel. The landing was close to being simultaneous but it wasn't.

I can see #1 and #3 not being called frequently and I may very well have several of those in my games that go uncalled but that doesn't mean they were not travels, just that they were missed.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

All three are travels. The only one that is hard to see with the given video angle is the post move.

#1. Ball caught with right foot down and left foot up. The left foot immediately comes down making the right foot the pivot. The right foot is lifted and moved to a new spot. Not a big travel, but a travel.

#2. Ball is caught with his right foot on the floor in the top lane space. He steps forward with his left foot making the right the pivot. The right is the lifted and he steps forward again on the right (the travel) before spinning back to the left.

#3. Ball caught in the air and landed right-left-right. Travel. The landing was close to being simultaneous but it wasn't.

I can see #1 and #3 not being called frequently and I may very well have several of those in my games that go uncalled but that doesn't mean they were not travels, just that they were missed.

I'm pitching my tent in this camp... I've got travel in all three. I may not catch them in my games but in this video analysis, yep. I'm working real hard on my travel call accuracy and like the direction I'm going. Find the pivot, find the pivot, find the pivot. In my mind I say "Gather, pivot..."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Certainly not obvious by any means.

Agree. If we're not sure, don't call it.

Different situation. Yesterday. Boys prep school. Second half. I'm the trail in a free throw situation. Black is shooting in front of their bench. I look at the table for substitutes. My next look is at the shooter to make sure that he's in his proper place, and then across the lane to make sure that everyone there is in their proper place. My partner, the lead, then bounces the ball to the shooter. In my peripheral vision, I spot a White player "sneaking" back, away from the three point arc. I was pretty sure that he was originally inside the arc, maybe on the far side of the lane, with me getting straight lined by the shooter, but I passed on it because I wasn't sure. Black misses and the Black coach goes nuts. "That's a violation. You have to call it". I yell back to him, "I didn't see it, so I can't call it", thinking, in my mind, that I blew the call. Coach continues to go nuts and I have to T him up, so now I'm doubly pissed at myself that not only did I blow the call, but it led to a technical foul.

After the game, I discus the call with my partner, ready to fall on my sword. My partner tells me that he spotted the White player heading into the lane from behind the three point arc and gave him the stop sign to prevent a violation, and I just saw the aftermath of that, White moving back away from the arc. I didn't blow the call, because I wasn't sure that there was a violation. I thought that there was a violation, but I was never sure.

[Scooby]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

1) If you make some small allowance, it's a jump stop and a legal pivot.

You may never legally pivot out of a 'jump stop'.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Scooby

You may never legally pivot out of a 'jump stop'.

It depends on your what your definition of a jump stop. There are two types of plays referred to as a jump stop.

If you gather (sorry, end the dribble for some of y'all) with a foot on the floor, jump off that foot, and land simultaneously on both feet, then no, you can't pivot. Same would apply if he gathered the ball with both feet in the air, landed on one foot, jumped off that foot and landed on both feet simultaneously.

The other type of jump stop is the one where a player gathers their dribble with both feet in the air and lands simultaneously...he may pivot with either foot in this case.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by APG

It depends on your what your definition of a jump stop. There are two types of plays referred to as a jump stop.

If you gather (sorry, end the dribble for some of y'all) with a foot on the floor, jump off that foot, and land simultaneously on both feet, then no, you can't pivot. Same would apply if he gathered the ball with both feet in the air, landed on one foot, jumped off that foot and landed on both feet simultaneously.

The other type of jump stop is the one where a player gathers their dribble with both feet in the air and lands simultaneously...he may pivot with either foot in this case.

and, the play in question was the latter.

[OKREF]

The Rivers play is a travel. In my opinion.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Scooby

You may never legally pivot out of a 'jump stop'.

Sure you can. Dribbling, end your dribble with both feet off the floor, land simultaneously land with both feet. Either can be the pivot.