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-   -   Toss to start the game (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/94003-toss-start-game.html)

Raymond Wed Feb 13, 2013 03:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanwestref (Post 879160)
Yeah, but in 3-man, the Lead never signals anything involving a three-point try. In 2-man, the Lead does.

....
There is no "yeah, but" to what I posted. In 3-man the Lead is not the primary on 3-point shots, I said the primary prelims and the Trail mirrors the touchdown and I said he Lead never mirrors. So in 2-man or 3-man the Trail mirrors the touchdown. In 2-man or 3-man the primary gives prelim and touchdown. In 2-man or 3-man the Lead doesn't mirror the touchdown.

Also, the Lead does prelim in 3-man on fast breaks when the Trail hasn't made it up the court.

Texref Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:41pm
In both 2 and 3 person, I will signal attempt but not make as the lead. In 3 person, I'm only doing this in transition and would expect both C and T to pick it up, if they don't, TOUCHDOWN goes up. In 2 person, I pregame that I will not give successful signal on 3-pt try. If for some reason, my T misses the attempt, then I will. No big deal either way.

Sharpshooternes Thu Feb 14, 2013 01:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 878897)
A wee bit high. Fast 10 count too. I would love to be in that unit though with their focus on official development.
Ball rebounded at 15 seconds on the video timer. Whistle at 25 or 26. Good ten second call. Although he didn't start his count until two seconds after, I think he realized ( which I do sometimes too) that he should have been counting and when he did his first arm motion he started at 3 instead of 1.

Sharpshooternes Thu Feb 14, 2013 01:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tio (Post 879019)
The toss was too high...

The only other comment I would have is that starting so low will be problematic for bigger players. They will have an easier opportunity to steal the toss.
It is actually a violation to touch the jump ball before it reaches its peak height.

Sharpshooternes Thu Feb 14, 2013 01:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam (Post 879025)
why would you blow a toss back for being too high?
+1

Sharpshooternes Thu Feb 14, 2013 01:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 879027)
Is there some rule that when the guy who threw the toss is in the L he absolutely cannot move from his spot alnog the endline? It looks like he's set in cement.

I'm also trying to figure out why there was a shot-clock reset at the 3:54 mark.

All this for these guys and a shot clock, too. I can only imagine the fun that causes during a JV game.

My hope is some nice, veteran official shows them this clip and goes over the myriad of areas where they need improvement.



Probably because 3.2.1B-4 in the Officials' Manual says the R should "toss the ball slightly higher than either person can jump." Neither of those kids looks like a kangaroo so I'd be inclined to call that toss back :)
Does anyone use the mechanic in the book that says if the ball is tipped to the backcourt the non tossing official will become trail and the tosser will become lead? Just curious. We don't. Non tosser always becomes lead.

Sharpshooternes Thu Feb 14, 2013 01:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanwestref (Post 879160)
Yeah, but in 3-man, the Lead never signals anything involving a three-point try. In 2-man, the Lead does.

I posted something about this a few weeks ago. As the Trail, I need the Lead to signal three-point trys and makes in his PCA. If the Trail is the only person doing the touchdown signal, and the three-point try was attempted 40 feet from where he is standing, it looks weak. I say don't try to streamline 2-man and 3-man to make them as similar as possible. They are different enough already, keep them that way.

Also, I don't know where these "teachings" come from. My state uses the NFHS book. I do not care if I am told to do something different, I am going to follow the book.
Yeah it is on page 33 of the officials manual. Lead marks and touchdowns a 3 point attempt and/or make in their primary and trail mirrors. Lead never mirrors trail for this.

Adam Thu Feb 14, 2013 01:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 879028)
That's how I was taught. If it's too high, blow it and re do it.

The mechanics manual simply says if the "toss is poor" with no further definition.

Also, I accidentally edited your post when I meant to reply to it, sorry.
Please disregard that nasty private complaint, then. The only toss I'll ever blow dead is the one that is angled so as to be unfair to one player.

Camron Rust Thu Feb 14, 2013 02:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 879293)
Does anyone use the mechanic in the book that says if the ball is tipped to the backcourt the non tossing official will become trail and the tosser will become lead? Just curious. We don't. Non tosser always becomes lead.
Yep...did it last night.

There are times when it makes sense and to do. Otherwise, it really makes it unnecessarily difficult for both officials to cover the play correctly.

Sharpshooternes Thu Feb 14, 2013 03:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 879309)
Yep...did it last night.

There are times when it makes sense and to do otherwise in such cases really makes it unnecessarily difficult for both officials to cover the play correctly.
Cool. I have not tried it but it makes sense. I will make this part of my game next season.

OKREF Thu Feb 14, 2013 07:57am
In this part of Rome. The lead will signal a 3 for the preliminary, but never give the TD. In 3the man the lead never does.

Raymond Thu Feb 14, 2013 08:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 879327)
In this part of Rome. The lead will signal a 3 for the preliminary, but never give the TD. In 3the man the lead never does.
There is no debate about 3-man.

Just wondering why in 2-man the official who has the shot come from his PCA would not signal the touchdown. When I'm working 2-man I don't care if the trail mirrors me or not b/c I'm signalling the touchdown like I'm supposed to.

bob jenkins Thu Feb 14, 2013 08:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 879293)
Does anyone use the mechanic in the book that says if the ball is tipped to the backcourt the non tossing official will become trail and the tosser will become lead? Just curious. We don't. Non tosser always becomes lead.
The farther back the ball goes, the more likely the non-tosser becomes T.

The more pressure, the more likely the non-tosser becomes T.

Neither of those is very common, that's why the non-tosser is most often L. But, making a blanket statement like you did (or do in your area) is just wrong, imo.

Welpe Thu Feb 14, 2013 09:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 879292)
+1
Read through the thread instead of rapid firing responses. :)


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