Was I in the wrong here?

[ConnorOSU]

This is my third year officiating for CYO (Catholic Youth Organization, 3rd-8th grade), and I am a senior in high school. The majority of our officials are in high school, and we have adult officials for the big/older games. So here's the situation:

Both teams (seventh grade boys) are playing a competitive game but Team A comes out in the second half with an aggressive but clean trap. This completely flusters Team B and they quickly go down ten points. When they do manages to break the trap the kids go up for layups and throw themselves on the floor without any contact and expect a foul to be called. Neither my partner or I give them the call, and soon the crowd is getting out of hand.

In between the third and fourth quarters I go over towards the bleachers to get ready to put the ball in play. This is when one of the fans of Team B asks my name. I give it to him, and because I'm a bit of a smartass, give him the name and number of my supervisor as well. I'm smiling while doing this, and another fan tells me that smiling while officiating is unprofessional and to stop before he wipes it off my face. I'm debating having him ejected for threatening me but I decide to just tough out the final quarter. After all, I'm a skinny 17 year old, and while I enjoy being a smartass, actually ejecting a 300 pound samoan father scares the hell out of me.

So my question is, was I out of line smiling at the fans of a losing team? I've seen other officials in CYO (adult, veteran ones), smile at funny sequences during a game or if a fan says something so wrong it's funny. And in addition, our supervisor tells the younger refs to have fun while also keeping control of the situation. I think I did that.

Sorry for the length, and thanks for your opinions.

[OKREF]

I've been told by evaluators to smile and look like I am having fun while on the court.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by ConnorOSU

This is my third year officiating for CYO (Catholic Youth Organization, 3rd-8th grade), and I am a senior in high school. The majority of our officials are in high school, and we have adult officials for the big/older games. So here's the situation:

Both teams (seventh grade boys) are playing a competitive game but Team A comes out in the second half with an aggressive but clean trap. This completely flusters Team B and they quickly go down ten points. When they do manages to break the trap the kids go up for layups and throw themselves on the floor without any contact and expect a foul to be called. Neither my partner or I give them the call, and soon the crowd is getting out of hand.

In between the third and fourth quarters I go over towards the bleachers to get ready to put the ball in play. This is when one of the fans of Team B asks my name. I give it to him, and because I'm a bit of a smartass, give him the name and number of my supervisor as well. I'm smiling while doing this, and another fan tells me that smiling while officiating is unprofessional and to stop before he wipes it off my face. I'm debating having him ejected for threatening me but I decide to just tough out the final quarter. After all, I'm a skinny 17 year old, and while I enjoy being a smartass, actually ejecting a 300 pound samoan father scares the hell out of me.

So my question is, was I out of line smiling at the fans of a losing team? I've seen other officials in CYO (adult, veteran ones), smile at funny sequences during a game or if a fan says something so wrong it's funny. And in addition, our supervisor tells the younger refs to have fun while also keeping control of the situation. I think I did that.

Sorry for the length, and thanks for your opinions.

My 2¢ --

1) I would not have answered the person asking my name. The only time I speak with any member of the crowd is when they ask me a polite, informational question. (For example, in a recent game, the scoreboard was changed during halftime because it differed from both books. One member of the crowd came up to me as we were waiting for the start of the 3rd quarter and asked why, so I told him.)

2) As soon as the fan made a direct threat, I would have game management remove that person and contact the police.

[JetMetFan]

The mistake is talking to the fans.

You say you've seen older, more experienced officials do it. That's fine for them (sometimes). They have enough tools in their memory bank to deal with certain situations. However, I doubt they would speak to - or smile at - a crowd that's upset with them. Nothing good can come of it.

[Adam]

Your mistake was answering the fan, not with the smile.

As for the fan, is there a site manager? If so, he should remove the fan for threatening an official. If not, then call the police.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by ConnorOSU

This is my third year officiating for CYO (Catholic Youth Organization, 3rd-8th grade), and I am a senior in high school. The majority of our officials are in high school, and we have adult officials for the big/older games. So here's the situation:

Both teams (seventh grade boys) are playing a competitive game but Team A comes out in the second half with an aggressive but clean trap. This completely flusters Team B and they quickly go down ten points. When they do manages to break the trap the kids go up for layups and throw themselves on the floor without any contact and expect a foul to be called. Neither my partner or I give them the call, and soon the crowd is getting out of hand.

In between the third and fourth quarters I go over towards the bleachers to get ready to put the ball in play. This is when one of the fans of Team B asks my name. I give it to him, and because I'm a bit of a smartass, give him the name and number of my supervisor as well. I'm smiling while doing this, and another fan tells me that smiling while officiating is unprofessional and to stop before he wipes it off my face. I'm debating having him ejected for threatening me but I decide to just tough out the final quarter. After all, I'm a skinny 17 year old, and while I enjoy being a smartass, actually ejecting a 300 pound samoan father scares the hell out of me.

So my question is, was I out of line smiling at the fans of a losing team? I've seen other officials in CYO (adult, veteran ones), smile at funny sequences during a game or if a fan says something so wrong it's funny. And in addition, our supervisor tells the younger refs to have fun while also keeping control of the situation. I think I did that.

Sorry for the length, and thanks for your opinions.

Connor:

First, welcome to the Forum. It is great to see young people joining our avocation.

Second. There is nothing wrong with smiling when doing something you enjoy including officiating. You are young and going to make mistakes and will learn from your mistakes. One of the biggest thing that any official can do is interact with hostile spectators, see the following thread: T on parents?.

Regarding your particular situation, I would have stopped the game, met with your partner, and notified the site manager of the threat made by the 300 lbm parent.

Don't let your game today discourage you from continuing to officiate. Please continue to come to the Forum and also search out veteran officials for mentoring.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. I hope the OSU stands for The Ohio State University, and not those two other imposters.

[ConnorOSU]

Thanks for the input guys.

I normally judge these things on what I have seen past CYO officials do, and it is common in this league to answer fans' questions. I also remember in my first ever officiating clinic that if someone ever asks your name to give it to them and your supervisor will always handle it and take your side.

A site monitor didn't come up to us before the game and introduce himself, so I actually didn't know one was there. But after the game (I think he was in the bathroom during the smiling altercation) he came up to us and said we did a great job, so that was nice.

And the OSU is for Oregon State, but I have a few Buckeye friends so I like to see them do well also

[Adam]

If a coach asks for my name, I'll give it freely. If a fan asks, i refer them to the school/church/tournament authorities.

A fan asking for your name is 99.999997 % bad.

[JRutledge]

I think we can talk to fans and you should under the right circumstances. I think that standard is kind of silly for high schools considering that we can often be in their lap or face literally. If I did not talk to fans in my career sometimes then I can think of many problems arising.

That problem would be if you listened to them as to what your job is or isn't. Fans know little or nothing about professionalism of officials and if you were looking angry all the time they would accuses you of something else. The key is learning when to talk to fans at all. But this specific exchange was not necessary but if you are standing right in front of him, it might have looked worse if you ignored him completely.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think we can talk to fans and you should under the right circumstances. I think that standard is kind of silly for high schools considering that we can often be in their lap or face literally. If I did not talk to fans in my career sometimes then I can think of many problems arising.

That problem would be if you listened to them as to what your job is or isn't. Fans know little or nothing about professionalism of officials and if you were looking angry all the time they would accuses you of something else. The key is learning when to talk to fans at all. But this specific exchange was not necessary but if you are standing right in front of him, it might have looked worse if you ignored him completely.

Peace

I agree, and in this situation, if ignoring wasn't an option, I'd politely refer Dad to the site director.

After the threat, the game would not progress until safety is assured.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I agree, and in this situation, if ignoring wasn't an option, I'd politely refer Dad to the site director.

After the threat, the game would not progress until safety is assured.

I agree about the threat. I was more commenting on the action of talking to the fans.

I once worked a game where I was in a rather well known gym in Chicago and it is a very small gym and I was standing in front of a fan and the guy tried to move me. I got his hands off my waist and told him, "I am not moving anywhere and get your hands off of me." He noticed how stupid he sounded and the game moved on. If I did not say something to him he would not have been embarrassed. Not saying that is how you handle every situation and where I was I saw that is the only option considering what was going on, but it solved the problem. And no one knew that exchange took place but me and a couple of people in the stands. It was a win-win.

Peace

[Adam]

I agree there are exceptions, but I would be very hesitant to encourage a brand new official to do anything beyond my late grandfather's smile and nod.