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-   -   Technical on Coach with ball in flight (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93711-technical-coach-ball-flight.html)

Loudwhistle2 Sun Jan 27, 2013 03:14am

Technical on Coach with ball in flight
 
Second half, GV, visiting team puts up a 10' jumper, just as visiting coach says to center official, "you suck" Official T's up coach, then the ball goes throught the basket. (first time for me, with a T during a shot made good) didn't count basket, coach went and sat down. I'm pretty sure this is right in not counting the basket due to the whistle killing the ball and it was not an airborne shooter situation. If I'm reading 6-7 correclty I believe this was correct. Timeline of event: shot goes up, "you suck", whistle for T, ball goes through basket. Correct?
6-7

just another ref Sun Jan 27, 2013 03:16am

If the ball was in flight, the T does not cause it to be dead. Count the basket.

APG Sun Jan 27, 2013 03:16am

Ball is released: Count the basket
Before the release: No basket

Loudwhistle2 Sun Jan 27, 2013 03:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 874702)
If the ball was in flight, the T does not cause it to be dead. Count the basket.

D*mmit, thanks! Been bugging me, felt odd.

Scrapper1 Sun Jan 27, 2013 09:51am

Once a try is released, the ball does not become dead until
  • the try ends
  • a player control foul is committed
  • the offense commits an elbow-swinging violation.
I think that's it. I also thought of BI/GT is committed, but that would also end the try. So I think I have it covered.

Any other kind of foul does not cause the ball to become dead; the horn does not cause the ball to become dead.

In your situation, you'd still assess the technical foul, obviously; count the basket; then award the FTs and possession to the offended team.

stiffler3492 Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:27am

Next time, if you can, wait until the try is over, then whack.

BktBallRef Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 874733)
Next time, if you can, wait until the try is over, then whack.

Bad idea. What if the shot is missed, an offensive rebound is made and you hit the whistle just before A2 puts a layup in. No need for that to happen.

This isn't a team on a fastbreak, in which case you should hold the whistle. This is a shot in flight. The whistle has no bearing on whether the basket is counted or not. It counts if it goes. Either way, we're going to shoot FTs as soon as the shot ends.

stiffler3492 Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 874734)
Bad idea. What if the shot is missed, an offensive rebound is made and you hit the whistle just before A2 puts a layup in. No need for that to happen.

This isn't a team on a fastbreak, in which case you should hold the whistle. This is a shot in flight. The whistle has no bearing on whether the basket is counted or not. It counts if it goes. Either way, we're going to shoot FTs as soon as the shot ends.

Fair point. Yes I was thinking of a fast break. Also trying to avoid confusion.

twocentsworth Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 874734)
Bad idea. What if the shot is missed, an offensive rebound is made and you hit the whistle just before A2 puts a layup in. No need for that to happen.

This isn't a team on a fastbreak, in which case you should hold the whistle. This is a shot in flight. The whistle has no bearing on whether the basket is counted or not. It counts if it goes. Either way, we're going to shoot FTs as soon as the shot ends.

You should ABSOLUTELY wait until the play is over...THEN...wack! Doesn't matter if the T is called immediately after the coaches' comments...hold the whistle, then assess.

If you can stop it before the missed shot is rebounded by the offensive team, great. If not, doesn't matter - the coach is getting a T either way. No need to be so quick to blow the whistle while the shot is in the air.

Adam Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocentsworth (Post 874746)
You should ABSOLUTELY wait until the play is over...THEN...wack! Doesn't matter if the T is called immediately after the coaches' comments...hold the whistle, then assess.

If you can stop it before the missed shot is rebounded by the offensive team, great. If not, doesn't matter - the coach is getting a T either way. No need to be so quick to blow the whistle while the shot is in the air.

So, what's the point in waiting?

twocentsworth Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 874748)
So, what's the point in waiting?

There is no need to interrupt a scoring-opportunity-in-action by calling the T at that exact moment. You make things a whole lot easier by waiting a few extra seconds.

This is most certainly true when:
- a T on a defensive player would wipe out a scoring chance by the offense. (why penalize the offense for the opponents transgression?)
- a NCAAM game where the resumption of play is POI (if you call the T while no team control, you've got to go the arrow).

By waiting a few extra seconds, it becomes a "cleaner"/easier penalty administration.

bob jenkins Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocentsworth (Post 874755)
There is no need to interrupt a scoring-opportunity-in-action by calling the T at that exact moment. You make things a whole lot easier by waiting a few extra seconds.

In the OP, the shot was already in the air. This wasn't a "fast break" situation.

Here, call the T immediately, imo.

Adam Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocentsworth (Post 874755)
There is no need to interrupt a scoring-opportunity-in-action by calling the T at that exact moment. You make things a whole lot easier by waiting a few extra seconds.

This is most certainly true when:
- a T on a defensive player would wipe out a scoring chance by the offense. (why penalize the offense for the opponents transgression?)
- a NCAAM game where the resumption of play is POI (if you call the T while no team control, you've got to go the arrow).

By waiting a few extra seconds, it becomes a "cleaner"/easier penalty administration.

Neither situation applies to the OP, unless his GV games are done with NCAA rules. And POI in the OP would NOT be the arrow.

So again, why wait?

just another ref Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocentsworth (Post 874755)
There is no need to interrupt a scoring-opportunity-in-action by calling the T at that exact moment. You make things a whole lot easier by waiting a few extra seconds.

The T is on the team trying to score. I'm not interested in the status of their opportunity.

twocentsworth Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 874757)
Neither situation applies to the OP, unless his GV games are done with NCAA rules. And POI in the OP would NOT be the arrow.

So again, why wait?

My response was intentionally general enough to provide officials with various thoughts to consider.

Since you ONLY want to consider this situation in a GV game....my response to you is: "enjoy your career of working GV games. Call every violation/foul/infraction the exact second you see it. I'm sure you'll do well."


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