UNC/Georgia Tech

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is the rule in the rulebook.

4-61...

Peace

Still doesn't answer the question...what does it take for a secondary defender to become the primary defender?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still doesn't answer the question...what does it take for a secondary defender to become the primary defender?

One scenario: A1 is driving towards the basket. B2 sets up in the RA as a secondary defender. A1 stops continuous movement towards the basket. A1 then continues the drive towards the basket. B2 is no longer a secondary defender because A1 stopped his/her drive.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

One scenario: A1 is driving towards the basket. B2 sets up in the RA as a secondary defender. A1 stops continuous movement towards the basket. A1 then continues the drive towards the basket. B2 is no longer a secondary defender because A1 stopped his/her drive.

Fine. That is easy, but what if the defender sets up outside the RA by 1-2 feet, a dribbler at the top of the key beats his man, and then the defender, the only one in the lane, steps back so they have a heel on the line. The dribbler comes at them and turning and shifting but that defender moves to stay in their path and after 4-5 steps there is contact. Is that a secondary defender or primary?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Fine. That is easy, but what if the defender sets up outside the RA by 1-2 feet, a dribbler at the top of the key beats his man, and then the defender, the only one in the lane, steps back so they have a heel on the line. The dribbler comes at them and turning and shifting but that defender moves to stay in their path and after 4-5 steps there is contact. Is that a secondary defender or primary?

That's where my post from 2:24 EST kicks in. The NCAAW interp is that in this scenario B2 is not a SD because they established LGP outside of the RA. The rule still allows them to play defense as opposed to letting A1 blow by them.

I can only guess that it's the same in NCAAM but I'd feel better if an NCAAM's official confirmed that for me.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Fine. That is easy, but what if the defender sets up outside the RA by 1-2 feet, a dribbler at the top of the key beats his man, and then the defender, the only one in the lane, steps back so they have a heel on the line. The dribbler comes at them and turning and shifting but that defender moves to stay in their path and after 4-5 steps there is contact. Is that a secondary defender or primary?

Well, it's a secondary defender, but it's still a charge. To be a block (in this type of play, not a blanket statement), the INITIAL LGP must be inside the RA.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still doesn't answer the question...what does it take for a secondary defender to become the primary defender?

I thought Article 3 covered that possibility. Otherwise the definition seems clear to me. But I can see where you are going with this on some level. I would think that on a switch or something that takes place where a player is not driving to the basket, you could become the new primary defender other than what is listed.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Well, it's a secondary defender, but it's still a charge. To be a block (in this type of play, not a blanket statement), the INITIAL LGP must be inside the RA.

OK good answer.

Now, what if the defender was never outside the RA. Can they become a primary defender? Perhaps they were the only one in position to stop the drive and opponent was coming at them for 4-5 steps, perhaps shifting to maintain that position but never leaving the RA, and had ample time to take a new route or stop (the defender had plenty of time to step up too). Is that defender now a primary?

The point I'm trying to explore (and I'm not really sure here) is that it being in or out of the RA appears to not be as black and while as it may at first seem. There are ways for a defender that sets up in the RA to still draw the charge by becoming a primary.

The primary purpose of adding the RA really seems to have been to stop the last second cutoffs by a rotating secondary defender, not a player who was there all along.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would think that on a switch or something that takes place where a player is not driving to the basket, you could become the new primary defender other than what is listed.

Peace

Exactly. At some point, a player has to have a way to change from being a secondary defender to being a primary defender. If not, everyone could end up being a secondary defender forever with no way out. So, how long does a player have to be the one covering the opponent and at what distance in order be consider a new primary defender?

[bob jenkins]

When they stop their drive, when they pull it back out, etc.

I don't think you'll ever get a precise definition because of all the variables.

[Wellmer]

Anybody see in the 1st play, #14 for North Carolina? Not enough contact to make a difference in this case?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Wellmer

Anybody see in the 1st play, #14 for North Carolina? Not enough contact to make a difference in this case?

I noticed there was some contact. I had to watch again to see how severe it was and whether it affected A1 movement.

Edit: Just rewatched it. No foul on #14.

[Wellmer]

Thought he got a pretty good nudge but maybe not enough to warrant a foul by college standards?