First time to toss a coach

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Last night I finally picked up some 6th grade city league games that a fellow official had been asking me to do for the past two seasons. I did this against my better judgement because Wreck ball is less controlled and I don't want to develop bad habits or get lazy by having a partner that has no training and doesn't do HS ball. Anyway, to the point. Game had been going rather smoothly until 3.5 minutes left in the 8 point game. Coach doesn't like a call that I have (don't really remember what it was) right in front of his bench. He pokes me in the chest with his finger and says "why are you calling that?" Whack!! Easy T for touching me in that manner. Somehow he had gotten the ball in those 3-5 seconds. I go to report and he gives the ball a toss to the opposite end of the court where there are no players. Whack!! T#2 from me.

The coach refused to leave after a couple of minutes and just sat in the stands.

I called the game at this point. Anyway, my question is was I too quick to issue the second technical? The first was easy. There really isn't any AD or game management at the facility so I would also appreciate your thoughts on calling the game.

You let people poke you in the chest?

"Whack! Get out!"

I haven't been touched in such a manner in 26 years. You shouldn't be, ever.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by bktballref

too quick to call the second t? Are you kidding????

You should have tossed him immediately when he poked you in the chest!!!!

Originally Posted by apg

perhaps i'm envisioning this wrong, but if a coach pokes me in the chest and asks "why i'm calling that?" then whack, he's done for contacting an official.

Originally Posted by rich

you let people poke you in the chest?

"whack! Get out!"

i haven't been touched in such a manner in 26 years. You shouldn't be, ever.

+1000

[ODog]

Sharp, I sympathize with your situation and also your feelings of self-doubt, even in the face of a stone-cold ejection lock (which, of course, it is).

This summer, I tossed an AAU coach for standing toe to toe with me and telling me he'd "rip that MFing whistle off your neck and shove it down your MFing throat!"

Picture Aaron Paul vs. Warren Sapp. Guess which one I was.

Different from your scenario, however, was that I provoked him ... kind of. A little background: This guy called my lazy partner out for never switching and being completely oblivious to subs at the table (guilty on all counts and the reason he had risen to a state so agitated he challenged my P to a fight -- "You wanna go?") My partner's response was to play it cool and issue nary a warning, as he fancies himself the mid-50s "Marine look" type (think: guns like Hochuli). He also blows as an official b/c he's too cool to bother ... which, naturally, causes all sorts of problems when a game is only half officiated.

As the sages here say, "You promote what you permit." The coach's gloves were off when my partner passed on the boxing match without even a whistle. So when this psycho who'd been losing it all day had my ear during a technical foul (on one of his players), he said, "Man, these are just kids."

AND I SAID (calmly as ever, which probably didn't help) ...

"Exactly, and yet you're losing your mind over it."

The "t" on "it" hadn't even finished when he was on the court in homicide mode. One of his players later said, "He does this every game." I told the kid I felt bad for him and his teammates.

The lesson for me: Just keep it to yourself. There's no quip or retort worth having your life threatened by an unhinged psycho free to roam the sidelines of the outlaw society that is AAU basketball. You never know what felon-to-be is going to take offense to having his long-departed sanity called into question.

An hour later, the game ended and the site manager arranged to have me escorted to a different exit and brought my car there, as the coach -- who only left the gym after MUCH protestation and with two large males as escorts -- apparently stuck around awhile and made more threats in the parking lot.

Way off the path of your scenario, Sharp, as you didn't even do something slightly wrong as I did, but nonetheless you get to thinking ... especially in arenas far less regulated than the comparative "safety" of high school basketball.

The second-guessing is natural, even if logically it isn't. A lot of us have been there. Don't sweat it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ODog

An hour later, the game ended and the site manager arranged to have me escorted to a different exit and brought my car there, as the coach -- who only left the gym after MUCH protestation and with two large males as escorts -- apparently stuck around awhile and made more threats in the parking lot.

There's no excuse for them not calling the police if he was making threats in the parking lot.

[Brad]

Let me fix this for you...

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

He pokes me in the chest with his finger ... Easy T Easiest ejection of my life for touching me in that manner.

Definitely do not question yourself about the second T — you showed too much patience as it is. Next time a coach touches you (hopefully there won't be one) he is DONE!!

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Brad

Definitely do not question yourself about the second T — you showed too much patience as it is. Next time a coach touches you (hopefully there won't be one) he is DONE!!

This is a problem I have and know I need to work on. I give coaches waay too much rope and need to do better here.

As I've said before, the T's I don't give make me second guess myself more than the one's I do.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by grunewar

This is a problem I have and know I need to work on. I give coaches waay too much rope and need to do better here.

As I've said before, the T's I don't give make me second guess myself more than the one's I do.

Just remember...T's are just business, they're not personal. Just like EJ's in baseball and softball. What is important, 1s that when it's called for you have to take care of business.

I've never met a really good ref or ump who's a T and EJ 'happy' kind of official. But every good official I've met knows when and how to issue them and not give it a second thought.....it's just business.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Just remember...T's are just business, they're not personal. Just like EJ's in baseball and softball. What is important, 1s that when it's called for you have to take care of business.

I've never met a really good ref or ump who's a T and EJ 'happy' kind of official. But every good official I've met knows when and how to issue them and not give it a second thought.....it's just business.

Acknowledged, understood, and agree. I give them to players more readily - when earned and deserved. But, for some reason I am hesitant to pull the trigger on coaches!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Just remember...T's are just business, they're not personal. Just like EJ's in baseball and softball. What is important, 1s that when it's called for you have to take care of business.

I've never met a really good ref or ump who's a T and EJ 'happy' kind of official. But every good official I've met knows when and how to issue them and not give it a second thought.....it's just business.

Let's not kid ourselves, though.

I've been to so many camps where the clinicians say, "It's just another foul," blah, blah, blah.

Let's get this out of the way: They're full of crap. They're not just like any other foul. No other foul is called because of the behavior of someone. Someone who we already tolerate asking questions, disagreeing, etc. There's emotion usually involved -- instead of denying it, we should acknowledge it as a fact and work however we can to deal with it.

The best officials I've worked with can lose their place in the seconds after issuing a direct technical foul to a head coach -- going to the wrong end to administer free throws, heading to the wrong spot, putting themselves in a position to take more grief, etc. This is the moment where the partners are crucial -- get the official out of there, take a second to let the official gain his bearings, figure out the next steps.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Rich

The best officials I've worked with can lose their place in the seconds after issuing a direct technical foul to a head coach -- going to the wrong end to administer free throws, heading to the wrong spot, putting themselves in a position to take more grief, etc. This is the moment where the partners are crucial -- get the official out of there, take a second to let the official gain his bearings, figure out the next steps.

This is really very helpful. My association has recommended that whenever we call a T, find the nearest partner and discuss what happened and how you're going to administer it before you go report anything - for the exact reasons Rich noted. I had never done this prior to joining this association, and now that it's a normal practice, it makes everything go so much smoother when a T is called. It gives you a moment to get your head together, make sure you're shooting on the correct end of the court, and gives you an extra moment to collect yourself before you go over to the table where you're likely to get an earful from a coach.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Rich

Let's not kid ourselves, though.

I've been to so many camps where the clinicians say, "It's just another foul," blah, blah, blah.

Let's get this out of the way: They're full of crap. They're not just like any other foul. No other foul is called because of the behavior of someone. Someone who we already tolerate asking questions, disagreeing, etc. There's emotion usually involved -- instead of denying it, we should acknowledge it as a fact and work however we can to deal with it.

The best officials I've worked with can lose their place in the seconds after issuing a direct technical foul to a head coach -- going to the wrong end to administer free throws, heading to the wrong spot, putting themselves in a position to take more grief, etc. This is the moment where the partners are crucial -- get the official out of there, take a second to let the official gain his bearings, figure out the next steps.

+1
Excellent points Rich.

And there are so many more things to deal with with after whistling T in basketball as opposed to an EJ on the diamond.

[kwv001]

Originally Posted by grunewar

As I've said before, the T's I don't give make me second guess myself more than the one's I do.

I couldn't agree more. I once had an official that has now retired, whom I respected very much, tell me the only technical fouls he ever regretted during his career were the ones he didn't call.

This point hit home with me in a game last week - an absolutely awful GV game, with two coaches that would probably be described here as "howler monkeys". I beat myself up for two days thinking about how much better that game might have been, if we had just taken care of business early on.

[BballRookie]

Odog- loved the story. Those AAU Wild West type battles are great training for the more civilized world. You really do become judge, jury, and executioner.