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-   -   LV at UConn rule misapplications (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93524-lv-uconn-rule-misapplications.html)

Rich Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog (Post 872481)
Everybody knows what it means when an official says "on the floor" too. Doesn't make it right. I just want to know the right signal (if there is one).
There's a difference, as APG said. On the floor is frequently incorrect from a rules perspective.

There is no signal on the chart specifically for BI.

MD Longhorn Wed Jan 16, 2013 01:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 872476)
His natural landing point if the rim hadn't been there or his natural landing point given that he just tried to dunk the ball? I do not see him use the ring to adjust his flight in response to missing the dunk.
Either one, actually.

icallfouls Wed Jan 16, 2013 01:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 872406)
I don't see him as using the rim to swing. I see an attempted dunk, a released rim and a rebound. Given that he attempted a dunk, I would need to see some secondary action that was not part of the momentum of the dunk before I would feel that he had illegally contacted the rim and I just don't see that here.

In other words, I do think he let go and fell to the floor. You seem to think that he should have fell straight down but his momentum was towards the basket so unless he used the rim to check his momentum he's going to fall to the other side of the basket, like we see in the video.

It's nothing for me.
Agreed. His momentum was going to place him in that approximate area.

Eastshire Wed Jan 16, 2013 01:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 872487)
Either one, actually.
Well, we just see this differently then.

Adam Wed Jan 16, 2013 01:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 872489)
Agreed. His momentum was going to place him in that approximate area.
That's how I see it. I don't see his direction changed significantly enough to warrant a T. No way I get BI on this, the ball was down by his knees when he caught it.

I had one this summer where the would-be dunker hung up there, reached up and grabbed the ball as it was well above the rim. It was probably slightly outside the cylinder, but we went with BI rather than the T.

icallfouls Wed Jan 16, 2013 01:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 872494)
That's how I see it. I don't see his direction changed significantly enough to warrant a T. No way I get BI on this, the ball was down by his knees when he caught it.

I had one this summer where the would-be dunker hung up there, reached up and grabbed the ball as it was well above the rim. It was probably slightly outside the cylinder, but we went with BI rather than the T.
Had that very play a few years ago. Player, now at UNLV, stayed on the rim and with the ball above the cylinder, grabbed the ball with off hand, and tried to dunk it.

Camron Rust Wed Jan 16, 2013 01:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 872494)
That's how I see it. I don't see his direction changed significantly enough to warrant a T. No way I get BI on this, the ball was down by his knees when he caught it.

I had one this summer where the would-be dunker hung up there, reached up and grabbed the ball as it was well above the rim. It was probably slightly outside the cylinder, but we went with BI rather than the T.
It isn't just the change of direction but the fact that he was suspended in air, briefly, by the rim grab and was able to get his other arm out to try to catch the rebound while hanging on the rim. He didn't let go then, in a separate action, try to catch the ball.

You might also want to watch the video again. He may have bobbled the ball and only controlled it when it was at his knees, but he got his hand on it when it was still above his head and just after he let go....long before it got to his knees.

Adam Wed Jan 16, 2013 02:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 872498)
It isn't just the change of direction but the fact that he was suspended in air, briefly, by the rim grab and was able to get his other arm out to catch the rebound while hanging on the rim. He didn't let go then catch the ball.

You might also want to watch the video again. He may have bobbled the ball and only controlled it when it was at his knees, but he got his hand on it when it was still above his head and just after he let go....long before it got to his knees.
Fair enough, but WRT the T, he didn't hang on the rim long enough that a T would have been called with no one under him. I'm not sure I could justify that call.

Did he gain an advantage by hanging there? I'm not sure he hung long enough to say he did, since he released the rim almost immediately.

WRT BI, I may have exaggerated with the "knees," but the ball was below the rim and nowhere near the cylinder when he first touched it.

icallfouls Wed Jan 16, 2013 02:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 872498)
It isn't just the change of direction but the fact that he was suspended in air, briefly, by the rim grab and was able to get his other arm out to try to catch the rebound while hanging on the rim. He didn't let go then, in a separate action, try to catch the ball.

You might also want to watch the video again. He may have bobbled the ball and only controlled it when it was at his knees, but he got his hand on it when it was still above his head and just after he let go....long before it got to his knees.
Most players dunking the ball don't come down immediately, the act of grabbing the rim slows their descent. Specific gravity does not apply until they are no longer in contact with the rim. He did not catch the ball while in contact with the rim

Eastshire Wed Jan 16, 2013 03:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 872498)
It isn't just the change of direction but the fact that he was suspended in air, briefly, by the rim grab and was able to get his other arm out to try to catch the rebound while hanging on the rim. He didn't let go then, in a separate action, try to catch the ball.

You might also want to watch the video again. He may have bobbled the ball and only controlled it when it was at his knees, but he got his hand on it when it was still above his head and just after he let go....long before it got to his knees.
At this point you're calling a T on him for grabbing the rim on a dunk.

He did not hang on the rim for an inappropriate amount of time. He didn't use the rim for leverage to reach a position he otherwise would not have reached after the attempted dunk (no second action on the rim). Yes, he hung there briefly after attempting to dunk. No, that is not illegally contacting the rim.

Camron Rust Wed Jan 16, 2013 03:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 872514)
At this point you're calling a T on him for grabbing the rim on a dunk.

He did not hang on the rim for an inappropriate amount of time. He didn't use the rim for leverage to reach a position he otherwise would not have reached after the attempted dunk (no second action on the rim). Yes, he hung there briefly after attempting to dunk. No, that is not illegally contacting the rim.
Agree...he legally grasped the rim and didn't hang on so long that it became illegal. But legally grabbing the rim doesn't allow him to use it for further advantage in going for a rebound while doing so. That is the distinction. And it is not BI by any reading of the rules...although I think that would be a more just call than the T.

knockitoff Thu Jan 31, 2013 02:29am
Actually, more like the State Farm Insurance commercial, where the 2 "arena dudes" are lassoeing and "competitive cheering" and frolicking w/ ea. other, than the disco-ball...although Shows looks alot like Travolta in SNF.


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