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-   -   Ucon MU OT (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93374-ucon-mu-ot.html)

HawkeyeCubP Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCHSAA (Post 869444)
Treat it as if they went the proper direction, which is different than what happened in the game in question.

How is it different? In both cases, the officials allowed the players to go the wrong direction to start a period, no?

Check NCAA 5-1-3 and NFHS 4-5-4, 5.2.1.E, & 5.2.1.F.

NCHSAA Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP (Post 869445)
How is it different? In both cases, the officials allowed the players to go the wrong direction to start a period, no?

I agree. The difference IMO is the situation that leads to the discovery. Which in this case is the "goaltend". You cannot have one at the wrong basket and you must correct the wrong direction based on that situation.

HawkeyeCubP Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCHSAA (Post 869447)
I agree. The difference IMO is the situation that leads to the discovery. Which in this case is the "goaltend". You cannot have one at the wrong basket and you must correct the wrong direction based on that situation.

The "situation that leads to the discovery" is irrelevant. The goaltending violation, along with everything else that happens prior to the discovery of the officials' error, is to stand, and be treated as though the teams were going in the proper directions.

tjones1 Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:31pm

According to StatSheet, there was a big crew on the game.

Karl Hess, Michael Stephens, Mike Stuart

Triad zebra Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP (Post 869449)
The "situation that leads to the discovery" is irrelevant. The goaltending violation, along with everything else that happens prior to the discovery of the officials' error, is to stand, and be treated as though the teams were going in the proper directions.

NCHSAA read 4-5-4. After the GT is called the mistake was recognized. Count the basket and get everyone going the proper direction.

tjones1 Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCHSAA (Post 869433)
Since there was no goaltend the only means of determining control was the arrow. Which favored Marquette since UConn won the tip, even going the wrong way.

If there's no GT, then there's no try, then there's still TC.

IW gives the ball back to the team with TC.

NCHSAA Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 869453)
If there's no GT, then there's no try, then there's still TC.

IW gives the ball back to the team with TC.

Who had control?

NCHSAA Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:43pm

What is the difference then in the case book play where you have a foul and the ball goes in if going the wrong direection??? You still do not count the basket and you correct off of that.

You cannot disregard NCAA 4-73 (Page 64)

Raymond Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCHSAA (Post 869447)
I agree. The difference IMO is the situation that leads to the discovery. Which in this case is the "goaltend". You cannot have one at the wrong basket and you must correct the wrong direction based on that situation.

So if they went the wrong way for 2 minutes and there were several field goals scored then MU's commits a goaltending violation at which point the error in direction is discovered, you are going to ignore the goaltending?

If the officials lined them up in the wrong direction then UConn was shooting at the "right" basket as far as the violation is concerned.

You are completely and illogically ignoring the fact that officials lined them up wrong. It's not the same as inadvertently shooting at the wrong basket. It's just that simple.

NCHSAA Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 869456)
So if they went the wrong way for 2 minutes and there were several field goals scored then MU's commits a goaltending violation at which point the error in direction is discovered, you are going to ignore the goaltending?

If the officials lined them up in the wrong direction then UConn was shooting at the "right" basket as far as the violation is concerned.

You are completely and illogically ignoring the fact that officials lined them up wrong. It's not the same as inadvertently shooting at the wrong basket. It's just that simple.

One, if it takes 2 minutes then something is wrong. I'm speaking at the college level. Where this should not happen for 2 minutes. I'm not convinced yet based on a try being at your correct basket. And I'm not saying I wont be convinced

HawkeyeCubP Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCHSAA (Post 869454)
Who had control?

The team last in control is still in team control, because, by your logic in this play, there wasn't a try.

HawkeyeCubP Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCHSAA (Post 869458)
One, if it takes 2 minutes then something is wrong. I'm speaking at the college level. Where this should not happen for 2 minutes. I'm not convinced yet based on a try being at your correct basket. And I'm not saying I wont be convinced

First, the rule application for this scenario is the exact same in the HS and college games. Second, per NCAA: Rule 5. Section 1. Article 3. The amount of time the officials permit the players to go in the wrong directions is irrelevant. And invoking 4-73 is not relevant either, because the officials' error led the players to believe they were attempting tries at their own baskets.

BktBallRef Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:06am

The officials erred in allowing the teams to line up and go the wrong way. The GT should score the basket, then turn the teams around and continue play. The crew screwed the pooch.

Raymond Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCHSAA (Post 869458)
One, if it takes 2 minutes then something is wrong. I'm speaking at the college level. Where this should not happen for 2 minutes. I'm not convinced yet based on a try being at your correct basket. And I'm not saying I wont be convinced

Well, since you are quoting rules to back your stance where does it state that time is relevant to a ruling?

just another ref Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:12am

Anybody ever see this happen in a D1 game before?

I find it embarrassing when we let teams go the wrong way in a jr. high game.
I personally have never been involved when it happened at the start of any quarter.


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