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-   -   Sideline position? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93182-sideline-position.html)

OKREF Mon Dec 10, 2012 01:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 866009)
Like I said, unless you're willing to call the violation for leaving the court, I don't think you can say B1 has left the playing court. IOW, you either have a defensive violation (thus an immediate dead ball), or a pc.

How can you call a player control on a player when the defensive player is not legally on the court?

Adam Mon Dec 10, 2012 01:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 866012)
How can you call a player control on a player when the defensive player is not legally on the court?

That's my point. If he's left the court, it's a violation, no foul either way. If he hasn't left the court, and he's not moving, it'd either pc or nothing.

maven Mon Dec 10, 2012 01:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 866010)
How did he get off of the court if he didn't leave?

I'm not sure what "off of the court" means. He hasn't left the court because he's still mostly on the court, but he is OOB by rule.

Now let's explore the absurdities of your position. You're either calling the LTC violation every time a player has a toenail on the boundary, or you're calling it just when you want to avoid calling a PC foul. Do I have that right? :p

rockyroad Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by maven (Post 866016)
I'm not sure what "off of the court" means. He hasn't left the court because he's still mostly on the court, but he is OOB by rule.

Now let's explore the absurdities of your position. You're either calling the LTC violation every time a player has a toenail on the boundary, or you're calling it just when you want to avoid calling a PC foul. Do I have that right? :p

No you do not have his position right...

He is saying that he will call a violation on the defender before calling a block on the defender for having a foot oob. Since by rule the defender violated before there was any contact.

Now please explain why you think that is absurd...

abbott20 Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 866020)
No you do not have his position right...

He is saying that he will call a violation on the defender before calling a block on the defender for having a foot oob. Since by rule the defender violated before there was any contact.

Now please explain why you think that is absurd...

So it would be a LTC violation?

Adam Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 866020)
No you do not have his position right...

He is saying that he will call a violation on the defender before calling a block on the defender for having a foot oob. Since by rule the defender violated before there was any contact.

Now please explain why you think that is absurd...

Exactly. The rule simply says a player can't have LGP. It says nothing about the spot itself being illegal.

To me, the absurd position is the one that insists 4-37-3 doesn't apply because B1 isn't on the "playing court" but B1 hasn't violated because he somehow hasn't left the court.

Terrapins Fan Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 866013)
That's my point. If he's left the court, it's a violation, no foul either way. If he hasn't left the court, and he's not moving, it'd either pc or nothing.

When did you notice he (B1) left the court, before or after the contact?

There's contact, you're going to call the block.

You call leaving the court when someone gains an advantage, as in receiving a pass for a shot or a drive to the basket.

JMO.

maven Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 866020)
No you do not have his position right...

He is saying that he will call a violation on the defender before calling a block on the defender for having a foot oob. Since by rule the defender violated before there was any contact.

Now please explain why you think that is absurd...

It's absurd because he's calling a violation depending on whether there was a foul.

OKREF Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 865998)
The rule says B1 is entitled to his spot on the court. He's either entitled to this spot, or he's not on the court. IMO, if one foot on the line isn't enough to call the violation for leaving the court, then a stationary B1 isn't liable for the contact.

Coach, I know we had a collision there and both players ended up on the floor. Coach, I have a PC foul on you. Yes coach I know he didn't have both feet on the playing court, and I didn't call a violation on him, but your player ran over a guy who was not legally on the court, so it is a PC.

Good luck trying to sell that one.

rockyroad Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by maven (Post 866027)
It's absurd because he's calling a violation depending on whether there was a foul.

And you are calling a foul depending on whether there was a violation.

So is that not also absurd?

Adam Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by maven (Post 866027)
It's absurd because he's calling a violation depending on whether there was a foul.

No, what's absurd is your interpretation of my position.

rockyroad Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 866029)
Coach, I know we had a collision there and both players ended up on the floor. Coach, I have a PC foul on you. Yes coach I know he didn't have both feet on the playing court, and I didn't call a violation on him, but your player ran over a guy who was not legally on the court, so it is a PC.

Good luck trying to sell that one.

So a player is standing there talking to his coach, and the ball handler lowers his shoulder and drills that player square in the back...and you are calling a block because the defender -who never even saw the ball handler coming at him - had his foot on the sideline???

Good luck selling THAT one.

Adam Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 866029)
Coach, I know we had a collision there and both players ended up on the floor. Coach, I have a PC foul on you. Yes coach I know he didn't have both feet on the playing court, and I didn't call a violation on him, but your player ran over a guy who was not legally on the court, so it is a PC.

Good luck trying to sell that one.

'Coach, he's entitled to his spot.'

Easy sell.

Again, he's either on the court, or he left it. I'm done for now.

OKREF Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 866032)
So a player is standing there talking to his coach, and the ball handler lowers his shoulder and drills that player square in the back...and you are calling a block because the defender -who never even saw the ball handler coming at him - had his foot on the sideline???

Good luck selling THAT one.

Is that player legally on the court?

rockyroad Mon Dec 10, 2012 02:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 866034)
Is that player legally on the court?

Was that player guarding anyone and thus needing to fit that part of the definition of LGP?


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