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I'll Have to Find My Glasses Also, This May Take Some Time ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 865809)

Me thinks you didn't know the rules twenty-five or thirty years ago.

What? You're questioning my ability to remember an obscure fact from twenty-five years ago? Just wait until I find my car keys, because then I'll drive over to your house, in the left lane, with my left turn signal operating the entire trip, and punch you in the nose.

Unfortunately, the rule books in my library only go back as far as 1996-97, so we may have to wait for Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. to mosey on by to get his input on this ancient rule reference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 865809)

I've been watching basketball since 1970 and officiating it since 1985 and I don't ever recall that being the rule.

Now that I've given this some thought, I believe that this may have not actually been a rule, but rather, an ancient, now extinct, casebook play interpretation. An interpretation similar to the way we now interpret the play when thrower-in-er A1 throws the ball completely out of bounds without the ball touching any player on, or off, the court. Now, and back then, this is, and was, not an out of bounds violation, but rather, a throwin violation, with the ball awarded the Team B at the spot of the original throwin, not at the spot where the ball goes out of bounds.

BktBallRef: I apologize for threatening to punch you in the nose. I woke in a crotchety, cranky, ill tempered, mood this morning, like the mood that I wake up in every morning. Now that I've yelled at the neighborhood kids to get off my lawn, I'm in a much better mood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 865789)

Also, if the original throw in in the OP is an AP throw in, does the arrow change or stay the same?

Excellent question...I don't have an answer for you yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 865789)

Also, if the original throw in in the OP is an AP throw in, does the arrow change or stay the same?

The arrow changes when the ball is touched legally in bounds. That never happened, so the arrow shouldn't change.

B being out of bounds, imm, is no different than first touching the ball by kicking it. Not a legal touch, so A's subsequent throw in is for the B violation, and A would keep the arrow.

The arrow would switch. The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches or is touched by another player out of bounds.

4-42-5b

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 865852)

The arrow would switch. The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches or is touched by another player out of bounds.

4-42-5b

Good to know!

So B can benefit by playing outside the lines. Interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 865853)

Good to know!

So B can benefit by playing outside the lines. Interesting.

A had their chance to make a an AP throwin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 865853)

Good to know!

So B can benefit by playing outside the lines. Interesting.

What's the benefit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 865858)

What's the benefit?

Half a possession.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 865862)

Half a possession.

There is no benefit. The violation carries its own penalty. The AP throw-in is over. The out of bounds violation is totally different than a kick, which is a deliberate, illegal act.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 865862)

Half a possession.

That would be a benefit if we also called it a throw-in violation on A and gave B the ball and the arrow.

And maybe even if we wnet back to the original spot and gave the ball to A.

But since we're giving the ball to A at the spot where B touched it OOB, then it's not different from B tipping the ball and causing it to go OOB.