PC foul?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why does that matter? What if he didn't know the defender was coming and jumped forward to shoot a floater?

Love doesn't jump forward in this play. He jumps sideways into the defender.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Love doesn't jump forward in this play. He jumps sideways into the defender.

And again, what legal position is an airborne defender that is not in his vertical space mean? Airborne shooters that jump into legal defenders are responsible for contact. How often do shooters jump vertical at the basic? This is basic stuff man, not sure what you are trying to prove.

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And again, what legal position is an airborne defender that is not in his vertical space mean? Airborne shooters that jump into legal defenders are responsible for contact. How often do shooters jump vertical at the basic? This is basic stuff man, not sure what you are trying to prove.

Peace

Why does the offense get to jump out of their vertical space, but not the defense? Just seems we always penalize the defense when creating contact, well Love creates this contact, and is more responsible for the contact, so we either have PC, or nothing.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Why does the offense get to jump out of their vertical space, but not the defense?

Who cares, they just do.

When a player shoots a lay-up isn't he jumping outside his vertical plane? If a defender jumps at the same time from the other side of the basket and they collide are you going to "no call" it b/c the A1 was not vertical?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Why does the offense get to jump out of their vertical space, but not the defense? Just seems we always penalize the defense when creating contact, well Love creates this contact, and is more responsible for the contact, so we either have PC, or nothing.

I did not say they necessarily do. But when the rules spend a lot of time talking about defenders and their LGP. The rules does not spend that same time talking about legal position for a ball handler. Also there is a reason their is a rule for an airborne shooter and if a defender is in a LGP, then any contact would be on the ball handler or shooter. I just find your stance laughable on so many levels. You can have a foul on any ball handler if they do something outside of their legal right, but a defender that is jumping and not legal as no special protection. The shooter does have some special protection and even the ball handler when they say it is a foul to simply put hands on the dribbler.

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not say they necessarily do. But when the rules spend a lot of time talking about defenders and their LGP. The rules does not spend that same time talking about legal position for a ball handler. Also there is a reason their is a rule for an airborne shooter and if a defender is in a LGP, then any contact would be on the ball handler or shooter. I just find your stance laughable on so many levels. You can have a foul on any ball handler if they do something outside of their legal right, but a defender that is jumping and not legal as no special protection. The shooter does have some special protection and even the ball handler when they say it is a foul to simply put hands on the dribbler.

Peace

Great discussion on this topic BTW. I just honestly believe that the contact would have been avoided. Next I look at who is more responsible for this contact, and on this particular play I believe the offense is and for that reason I would go PC or nothing. Then just take my butt chewing from whichever coach I get it from!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Great discussion on this topic BTW. I just honestly believe that the contact would have been avoided. Next I look at who is more responsible for this contact, and on this particular play I believe the offense is and for that reason I would go PC or nothing. Then just take my butt chewing from whichever coach I get it from!!

So the player does this 5 feet from the basket and gives a fake and the defender goes airborne, then the shooter jumps to make sure that contact takes place, you are calling a PC foul?

Peace

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So the player does this 5 feet from the basket and gives a fake and the defender goes airborne, then the shooter jumps to make sure that contact takes place, you are calling a PC foul?

Peace

That is different than the play we are looking at. The shooter in this play is not yet airborne. He moved into the path of the defender while starting the usual movement that precedes a try. Had Love been in the air with the same contact then yeah defender foul all the way. He moved into the path of the defender outside his shoulder width with his feet, creating the contact illegally according to the end of the paragraph of 4-23-1.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So the player does this 5 feet from the basket and gives a fake and the defender goes airborne, then the shooter jumps to make sure that contact takes place, you are calling a PC foul?

Peace

If the defender stays in his vertical plane, yes, if not, block.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Great discussion on this topic BTW. I just honestly believe that the contact would have been avoided. Next I look at who is more responsible for this contact, and on this particular play I believe the offense is and for that reason I would go PC or nothing. Then just take my butt chewing from whichever coach I get it from!!

This is why I don't focus too much on who initiated the contact. Sometimes a defender makes a mistake that leaves him wide open to this play.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

This is why I don't focus too much on who initiated the contact. Sometimes a defender makes a mistake that leaves him wide open to this play.

I don't usually either, but I think on this play it does play a factor.