PC foul?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Based on some people's interprations a defender could just run and jump, timing his landing to intersect and land on a moving ball-handler and the foul would be on the ball-handler.

And now people want to apply screening requirements on airborne shooters.

If the play in this video had happened at the rim instead of the 3-point line there wouldn't even be a debate.

Only as far as he saw the defender coming and deliberately jumped into his path instead of actually taking a shot.

But, I'm going back to my initial instinct of the foul that was called. It was, I think, a good exercise, but guarding rules prevail here.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not only was the defender not vertical, he was not in a Legal Guarding Position....

Based on some people's interprations a defender could just run and jump, timing his landing to intersect and land on a moving ball-handler and the foul would be on the ball-handler.

And now people want to apply screening requirements on airborne shooters.

If the play in this video had happened at the rim instead of the 3-point line there wouldn't even be a debate, that's why none of the "foul on Kevin Love" folks have answered my question up-thread, b/c it would invalidate their assertions about the play in the video.

"B2 is running running parallel to the endline and jumps towards the basket and A1, approaching perpendicular to the endline, then goes airborne towards the basket and they collide mid-air. Who is the foul on?"

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

Only as far as he saw the defender coming and deliberately jumped into his path instead of actually taking a shot.
....

Why does that matter? What if he didn't know the defender was coming and jumped forward to shoot a floater?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why does that matter? What if he didn't know the defender was coming and jumped forward to shoot a floater?

Love doesn't jump forward in this play. He jumps sideways into the defender.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Love doesn't jump forward in this play. He jumps sideways into the defender.

And again, what legal position is an airborne defender that is not in his vertical space mean? Airborne shooters that jump into legal defenders are responsible for contact. How often do shooters jump vertical at the basic? This is basic stuff man, not sure what you are trying to prove.

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And again, what legal position is an airborne defender that is not in his vertical space mean? Airborne shooters that jump into legal defenders are responsible for contact. How often do shooters jump vertical at the basic? This is basic stuff man, not sure what you are trying to prove.

Peace

Why does the offense get to jump out of their vertical space, but not the defense? Just seems we always penalize the defense when creating contact, well Love creates this contact, and is more responsible for the contact, so we either have PC, or nothing.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Why does the offense get to jump out of their vertical space, but not the defense?

Who cares, they just do.

When a player shoots a lay-up isn't he jumping outside his vertical plane? If a defender jumps at the same time from the other side of the basket and they collide are you going to "no call" it b/c the A1 was not vertical?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Why does the offense get to jump out of their vertical space, but not the defense? Just seems we always penalize the defense when creating contact, well Love creates this contact, and is more responsible for the contact, so we either have PC, or nothing.

I did not say they necessarily do. But when the rules spend a lot of time talking about defenders and their LGP. The rules does not spend that same time talking about legal position for a ball handler. Also there is a reason their is a rule for an airborne shooter and if a defender is in a LGP, then any contact would be on the ball handler or shooter. I just find your stance laughable on so many levels. You can have a foul on any ball handler if they do something outside of their legal right, but a defender that is jumping and not legal as no special protection. The shooter does have some special protection and even the ball handler when they say it is a foul to simply put hands on the dribbler.

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not say they necessarily do. But when the rules spend a lot of time talking about defenders and their LGP. The rules does not spend that same time talking about legal position for a ball handler. Also there is a reason their is a rule for an airborne shooter and if a defender is in a LGP, then any contact would be on the ball handler or shooter. I just find your stance laughable on so many levels. You can have a foul on any ball handler if they do something outside of their legal right, but a defender that is jumping and not legal as no special protection. The shooter does have some special protection and even the ball handler when they say it is a foul to simply put hands on the dribbler.

Peace

Great discussion on this topic BTW. I just honestly believe that the contact would have been avoided. Next I look at who is more responsible for this contact, and on this particular play I believe the offense is and for that reason I would go PC or nothing. Then just take my butt chewing from whichever coach I get it from!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why does that matter? What if he didn't know the defender was coming and jumped forward to shoot a floater?

In the end, it doesn't, because the defender was defending that shot. If, however, the defender was trying to get past to guard another player, then this is likely a ball screen.