Directives

[tref]

As NCAA/HS meetings are occuring, has anyone received the following message from their supervisors?

Game reminders
1. Bodies down... you must have a whistle

[JRutledge]

No. I have heard that over the years, but not everyone agrees with that black and white premise or uses that phrase. Bodies can be on the floor and nothing illegal can take place.

Peace

[Adam]

Officially, no. We have been told to know how they got there, but no directives per se.

I have been told that in feed back from a follow on varsity crew, who proceeded to have a no-call with bodies on the floor in the first minute of their game.

[tref]

I'm talking specifically about block/charge or pass/crass situations where the defender "flops" but causes himself & the shooter or passer to fall in the paint. Bracing ones self or backing up (after obtaining LGP) for imminent contact is not what I'm speaking of.

I know last year, guys on the Forum were saying a flop w/contact doesnt have to be a block... even if it causes both players to land in the paint.

So far, I've done a couple scrimmages, 1 meeting (two different leagues) & I've heard the same thing, bodies down requires a whistle.

The "know how they got to the floor" concept still allows officials to put their personal interpretation on the play. The defender flopped so I know how he got there but I still choose not to call the play, even though we have 2 bodies laying in the paint as he uses the unauthorized "get up" signal.

Had a play early in 2 different scrimmages where we called the flop a block & it was so wonderful to hear the coach say, "they arent allowing it, stop flopping & move your feet!"

Had we no-called the first one, then called the second one & maybe no called another, that is what leads to an inconsistent game.

IMO, no calling it encourages the defense to try the fool the referee play again.
Calling the flop a block makes it stop.

[Adam]

I get the same reaction from my no-calls to be honest.

"He's not going to give you that, stay in there."

I personally don't like calling the block when the defender hasn't done anything wrong. Falling backwards is legal, unless that action puts him into a path he would otherwise not have been in. That's rarely the case, I think.

Most times he falls back, in the same path, so if I have to make a call, I'll go PC.

[Raymond]

Are you talking about 1 body on the floor or bodies (plural)? There's a difference. If a defender flops and he's the only one on the flooar while the rest of the players are headed back up court I don't see the need to call a block.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by tref

As NCAA/HS meetings are occuring, has anyone received the following message from their supervisors?

Game reminders
1. Bodies down... you must have a whistle

When I train/evaluate guys, I do tell them when bodies are on the floor, know how they got there. Because sure enough, one of coaches will want something.

But to say that bodies down is always a whistle is bad advice.

[tref]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

When I train/evaluate guys, I do tell them when bodies are on the floor, know how they got there. Because sure enough, one of coaches will want something.

They've been using that phrase for years now & it still leads to the no-call while waving "get up" more often than not. Knowing how they got there, unfortunatlely, doesnt lead to the correct call being made.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

But to say that bodies down is always a whistle is bad advice.

I respect that, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I will always listen to the guy that gives me a schedule & call it like he says. Guess thats why my schedule increases every year...

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by tref

They've been using that phrase for years now & it still leads to the no-call while waving "get up" more often than not. Knowing how they got there, unfortunately, doesn't lead to the correct call being made.

I don't like this mechanic.

As for missing the correct call, this can happen in any type of contact.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

...

I respect that, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I will always listen to the guy that gives me a schedule & call it like he says. Guess thats why my schedule increases every year...

So did you want our opinions or do you think we should do what your supervisor tells you to do?

Kinda missing the point of your last paragraph in regards to the subject.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Adam

Here's what I don't get.

Assuming the defender falls backwards, remaining in the shooter's path in which they were already established, what is he doing illegally that would warrant a blocking foul?

What you describe sounds like a defender falling backwards bracing for imminent contact AFTER obtaining LGP. Nothing illegal about that... I dont consider that a flop.

What I'm talking about is not obtaining LGP (usually a 2ndary defender) and laying down on the play to get a call.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So did you want our opinions or do you think we should do what your supervisor tells you to do?.

Actually, I just asked if anybody else is hearing this directive across the country... but opinions are always welcomed

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Kinda missing the point of your last paragraph in regards to the subject.

It was in regards to the following:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

But to say that bodies down is always a whistle is bad advice.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

...

Actually, I just asked if anybody else is hearing this directive across the country... but opinions are always welcomed

...

Alright then, but I've been hearing people say that since my first days in officiating, so it's not something new, that's for sure. It's more a of "when in Rome..." type of deal that I'm sure most of the officials here do or don't do based on whom they are working for. It's safe to say most of the folks here who care enough about officiating that they discuss it online are getting better schedules every year.

[legend]

If the defender falls in the direct path of where the airborn shooter is potentially going to land, you have to protect the shooter. I call the block and go a step further. I warn the defender that if it continues to happen I will hit him with the "T". Keep in mind that a slow whistle is important here, you want to see the entire play before you blow it here. If the shooter lands safely to the floor its a great time to inform the defender that it's not going to happen again and this typically keeps him from doing it again.
As far as the unauthorized "get up" mechanic, I think its helpful so the coach atleast sees that you have seen the action and in your opinion nothing illegal happened. Sure he will tell you what he thinks but IMO it helps.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by legend

If the defender falls in the direct path of where the airborn shooter is potentially going to land, you have to protect the shooter. I call the block and go a step further. I warn the defender that if it continues to happen I will hit him with the "T". Keep in mind that a slow whistle is important here, you want to see the entire play before you blow it here. If the shooter lands safely to the floor its a great time to inform the defender that it's not going to happen again and this typically keeps him from doing it again.
As far as the unauthorized "get up" mechanic, I think its helpful so the coach atleast sees that you have seen the action and in your opinion nothing illegal happened. Sure he will tell you what he thinks but IMO it helps.

If they fall INTO the path of the shooter, they probably don't have LGP and will have committed a block without regard to anything else.

If they fall IN the path of the shooter, from a position already in the path and away from the shooter and the shooter lands on them, the shooter would have landed on them anyway and the fall away only reduces the contact.

Don't use the get up mechanic. It looks horrible. Talk to them if you must, but not the get up waive.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Don't use the get up mechanic. It looks horrible. Talk to them if you must, but not the get up waive.

Most definitely! IMO, that "mechanic" generally means, "ooops I got caught by surprise because I was watching the ball instead of the defender & I dont know what to call."