Which comes first

[bigwhistle]

Having been teaching and critiqueing at camps a majority of the summer so far, the following question entered my mind somewhere between watching bad calls mixed with poor court positioning.

***When teaching fairly young officials (or officials trying to move to a different level) what is more important to be concentrating on first -- mechanics of where to be when and why vs. how to referee a ball game?***

There are merits to both sides of this issue. Being in position to be able to make a call is important. Knowing what to call is also important. Which of these two items is the chicken and which one is the egg?

I intentionally did not bring up teaching the rules. That is not the intent of this discussion, as those will be taught at a later time in the joint seminar on court presence.

[cmathews]

BigWhistle,
In our association, we try to work on mechanics first. The reasoning behind it is this: If you aren't in the right spot to make the call, no matter how good or bad it is, the coach can/will always question it. Even if the newbie knows how to call a pretty good game without the proper position they can/will always be questioned. The ones that don't know how to call a game, can either be taught when it is easier ie when they know where to be, or they will never learn anyway.... so in short we say that mechanics is the which comes first...

[Stan]

Originally posted by bigwhistle

I intentionally did not bring up teaching the rules. That is not the intent of this discussion, as those will be taught at a later time in the joint seminar on court presence. [/B]

I smell a long discussion comming. With that said, I wanted to know where to be to get the calls right. After that and after getting comfortable on the court, then I was relaxed enough to learn how to manage the game and understand the wisdom of the elders. I'm still learning!

Stan

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bigwhistle

***When teaching fairly young officials (or officials trying to move to a different level) what is more important to be concentrating on first -- mechanics of where to be when and why vs. how to referee a ball game?***

Mechanics is teaching(and the easy part).Has to come first.

How to referee at a new level?That combines a multitude of things that need to be learned.Gonna need experience,hopefully combined with teaching!

JMextremelyHO!

[JRutledge]

You always want to have good, strong mechanics to sell calls. But that comes with time and experience. It really is not about what comes first, some people have the talent or work hard to develop both. Officiating is about many things and multi-tasking. At least at the camps I have attended, the clinicans deal with all of those things.

Peace

[zebraman]

I'm not touching this one with a ten-foot pole (or basket).

Z

[LarryS]

Originally posted by bigwhistle
Having been teaching and critiqueing at camps a majority of the summer so far, the following question entered my mind somewhere between watching bad calls mixed with poor court positioning.

***When teaching fairly young officials (or officials trying to move to a different level) what is more important to be concentrating on first -- mechanics of where to be when and why vs. how to referee a ball game?***

There are merits to both sides of this issue. Being in position to be able to make a call is important. Knowing what to call is also important. Which of these two items is the chicken and which one is the egg?

I intentionally did not bring up teaching the rules. That is not the intent of this discussion, as those will be taught at a later time in the joint seminar on court presence.

Now you've done it...here we go again.

[Mark Dexter]

I like to teach presence first.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I like to teach presence first.

I like to get presents first.

[rainmaker]

I just returned from a camp where they were teaching 3-person mechanics, which I had done only once or twice before and a LONG time ago. I was really, really green. They were also teaching a new set of judgment skills, including in/outof primary, sequencing, heavier adv/disadv, and a different way to ref blow-outs. So in a way, learning new judgment and new mechanics, I was like a newbie. Ugh, it was AWFUL... (Heavy sigh, and long pause gazing off into space while thinking about all the nasty mistakes and general feeling of incompetence, and the glazed over looks in the eyes of the clinicians.)

But anyway...

I don't think you should seperate teaching mechanics from teaching judgment, if you're talking about court coverage mechanics as opposed to signaling, reporting and the basics of body language. When a nasty foul happens that a newbie misses because of being out of position, that's a great learning situation for both. Now the new ref works on postition in order to improve judgment, and both get better.

of course, it may depend on the person. Different people may learn things in different ways, so that each situation should be taught differently to each one individually (if that's even possible).

[ChuckElias]

Here's my take from camp so far this summer. According to Hank Nichols, officiating mechanics are the foundation of all officiating skills. Officiating mechanics comprise "a system that places three officials on the floor, in a precise manner, to put them in the best position to accept the play and make the right call". (Yes, I took careful notes )

If your mechanics are bad, your calls will be bad even if you have good judgment; b/c you will be out of position and not able to see the whole play. Rule knowledge is great, presence is great. But if you're consistently looking at the backs of 4 guys while the shooter is being creamed on the other side of those guys, you're gonna suck.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by rainmaker


I don't think you should seperate teaching mechanics from teaching judgment, if you're talking about court coverage mechanics as opposed to signaling, reporting and the basics of body language. When a nasty foul happens that a newbie misses because of being out of position, that's a great learning situation for both. Now the new ref works on postition in order to improve judgment, and both get better.

I attended a camp earlier this summer and the D1 Official that ran the camp made a big deal out of body language and facial expressions. He said that if you have a "negative" look on your face, you will be precieved negatively when you make calls or be thought of as having a bad attitude. So in his opinion, you should always have a "positive" look on your face or one that makes you at the very least "approachable." And things like looking folks in the eye, what you are doing with your hands when you talk, or the tone of voice you use in conversation with players and coaches can all determine how you are precieved as an official.

I personally have a bad habit of putting my hands on my hips. I think I mostly picked this up as a baseball umpire. I was instructed to stop doing it, because it looks like, "I am bored and do not want to be there." I tend to do this during timeouts and FTs as the lead official. But I am working on it.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by rainmaker
I just returned from a camp where they were teaching 3-person mechanics, which I had done only once or twice before and a LONG time ago. I was really, really green. They were also teaching a new set of judgment skills, including in/outof primary, sequencing, heavier adv/disadv, and a different way to ref blow-outs. So in a way, learning new judgment and new mechanics, I was like a newbie. Ugh, it was AWFUL... (Heavy sigh, and long pause gazing off into space while thinking about all the nasty mistakes and general feeling of incompetence, and the glazed over looks in the eyes of the clinicians.)).

As usual, Juulie is being very modest...as one of those "eyes glazed over" clinicians, I can tell you that we were very impressed with the progress she made from day 1 to day 3 of this camp - her 3-person mechanics improved greatly, and her judgement and consistency were very solid in the game I observed yesterday (last day)...

As far as the original question - teach both at the same time...concentrate on the mechanics and have the judgement type things be the secondary focus...that way the newbie (which we've all been at one time or another) can start getting the big picture right from the get-go...

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by bigwhistle
There are merits to both sides of this issue. Being in position to be able to make a call is important. Knowing what to call is also important. Which of these two items is the chicken and which one is the egg?

The best way to improve your judgment is to be in the proper position (and looking in the proper spot).

[JeffTheRef]

by the book is often the last refuge of scoundrels. It's like officiating has anal compulsivity up the ying-yang. Hmmm, perhaps that is redundant.

Mechanics are guidelines that best fit the game when everybody is standing still. No number of rules within rules is going to master the complexity of what can happen. Knowing what to look for, and having a quality internal algorithm for processing what you see, that's the most important thing, by far.

Knowing what's going to happen. That's really useful. And it can be done. It can even be taught.