POI or AP?

bainsey · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 11:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Correction, if there's no team control, and no goal, infraction, or end of period/half is involved.

Right, but he's talking double personal fouls here. If a goal is involved, the double personal foul typically happened during the shot -- no team control. Your point on end of period is well taken: tweet, double foul, horn. I'm struggling to think of a scenario where a double foul would precede a violation.

APG · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey

Right, but he's talking double personal fouls here. If a goal is involved, the double personal foul typically happened during the shot -- no team control. Your point on end of period is well taken: tweet, double foul, horn. I'm struggling to think of a scenario where a double foul would precede a violation.

Player jockeying for rebounding position...double foul while a try is in flight. Try goes in. You had a double foul with no team control, and according to your statement, we'd go to the AP, but there's a goal involved, therefore you wouldn't use the AP and the opposing team would have an unrestricted throw-in on the endline.

The problem with your statement is you'll have officials that would at times, erroneously give the ball back to the team that just made a basket or force a change of the AP when it's not warranted, if they followed the rule you didn't fully qualify.

tref · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey

Right, but he's talking double personal fouls here. If a goal is involved, the double personal foul typically happened during the shot -- no team control.

True, but if the try was successful then the POI is endline running for the non-scoring team. No arrow necessary on successful trys when a DF occurs.

bainsey · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 11:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref

True, but if the try was successful then the POI is endline running for the non-scoring team. No arrow necessary on successful trys when a DF occurs.

Yup, I'm awake now. Thanks.

Scrapper1 · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 12:40pm

Also, if there's a double personal during a throw-in. No team control, but you don't go to the arrow.

APG · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 12:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Also, if there's a double personal during a throw-in. No team control, but you don't go to the arrow.

Actually there is team control.

But your point still remains.

Scrapper1 · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 12:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Actually there is team control.

But your point still remains.

HA-HA!! I knew somebody would jump on that!! And actually -- I think we'll have to see the rule changes for this year.

My understanding is that they changed the definition of "team control foul" and deleted ALL the changes they made last year regarding control. So I think (I haven't seen the rulebook yet) that there is, once again, no player control or team control during a throw-in.

I knew I could bait somebody into that one

APG · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

HA-HA!! I knew somebody would jump on that!! And actually -- I think we'll have to see the rule changes for this year.

My understanding is that they changed the definition of "team control foul" and deleted ALL the changes they made last year regarding control. So I think (I haven't seen the rulebook yet) that there is, once again, no player control or team control during a throw-in.

I knew I could bait somebody into that one

Well...assuming NFHS doesn't change any language as it relates to double foul enforcement, we'd still handle the play the same, even if they did away with player/team control during a throw-in.

Camron Rust · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 02:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Actually there is team control.

But your point still remains.

Is there really? Didn't the NFHS rewrite the rules this to not actually say there was team control and all that entails but to only say that a foul during a throwin would be considered a team control foul?

Scrapper1 · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 07:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Is there really? Didn't the NFHS rewrite the rules this to not actually say there was team control and all that entails but to only say that a foul during a throwin would be considered a team control foul?

Uh, Camron, see post #16

Multiple Sports · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 12:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey

Yup, I'm awake now. Thanks.

Took you til 1 o'clock on this one to wake up ???????

bainsey · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Took you til 1 o'clock on this one to wake up ???????

Yup, started work five hours earlier than normal this morning. Sleep schedule a bit hazy.

Adam · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 12:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey

Right, but he's talking double personal fouls here. If a goal is involved, the double personal foul typically happened during the shot -- no team control. Your point on end of period is well taken: tweet, double foul, horn. I'm struggling to think of a scenario where a double foul would precede a violation.

FT, DF on the jockeying, followed by the FT missing the iron.

Adam · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 12:58pm

Or, B1 commits a shooting foul. While the ball is in the air, B2 and A2 commit a double foul.

billyu2 · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 31, 2012, 12:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey

Right, but he's talking double personal fouls here. If a goal is involved, the double personal foul typically happened during the shot -- no team control. Your point on end of period is well taken: tweet, double foul, horn. I'm struggling to think of a scenario where a double foul would precede a violation.

Ball in flight, double foul, offensive basket interference?