FIBA vs. NBA/NCAA/NFHS

[APG]

With regard to not whistling a shot clock violation if the defense gets immediate clear control:

There would be issues with timing rules. Under NBA rules, a team is only allowed a flat 24 seconds, from the time they get possession, if they commit a shot clock violation. This is especially of importance in late game situations:

Say there's 27.7 when Team A inbounds the ball with a fresh 24. A1 releases a field goal attempt before the buzzer but fails to cause the ball to hit the basket ring. B2 rebounds the ball with clear and immediate possession of the ball with 1.7 left on the clock.

FIBA: Play on as Team B has gotten clear and immediate possession of the ball thus no violation. This ends up not rewarding good defense. Also, under FIBA rules, since there are no live ball timeouts, basically Team B has to throw up a 3/4 shot. Basically, under FIBA rules, we're going to see end of game fouling, rather than the defense attempt to "play it out," with a lot more time left, not unlike NCAA-M.

NBA: Shot clock violation. Officials will reset the clock to 3.7 seconds. And now Team B, being rewarded for their good defense, will also be allowed to call a timeout and advance the ball to the 28' mark with a full 3.7 on the clock.

It's clear that the NBA doesn't want the offense taking more than 24 seconds off the clock (give or take a couple of tenths when they aren't clearly shown on the game clock) if they commit a shot clock violation as officials will correct this at any point in the game.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

With regard to not whistling a shot clock violation if the defense gets immediate clear control:

There would be issues with timing rules. Under NBA rules, a team is only allowed a flat 24 seconds, from the time they get possession, if they commit a shot clock violation. This is especially of importance in late game situations:

Say there's 27.7 when Team A inbounds the ball with a fresh 24. A1 releases a field goal attempt before the buzzer but fails to cause the ball to hit the basket ring. B2 rebounds the ball with clear and immediate possession of the ball with 1.7 left on the clock.

FIBA: Play on as Team B has gotten clear and immediate possession of the ball thus no violation. This ends up not rewarding good defense. Also, under FIBA rules, since there are no live ball timeouts, basically Team B has to throw up a 3/4 shot. Basically, under FIBA rules, we're going to see end of game fouling, rather than the defense attempt to "play it out," with a lot more time left, not unlike NCAA-M.

NBA: Shot clock violation. Officials will reset the clock to 3.7 seconds. And now Team B, being rewarded for their good defense, will also be allowed to call a timeout and advance the ball to the 28' mark with a full 3.7 on the clock.

It's clear that the NBA doesn't want the offense taking more than 24 seconds off the clock (give or take a couple of tenths when they aren't clearly shown on the game clock) if they commit a shot clock violation as officials will correct this at any point in the game.

None of that really matters.....24 seconds is really just an arbitrary threshold. If they wanted a team to take no more than 24 seconds, the would require it to hit the rim by 24 seconds but they don't.

24 seconds was chosen solely in an effort to achieve a certain number of points per game.....that's all.

Sure, it would change the result of a few plays, but it does so in a way that doesn't really matter.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

None of that really matters.....24 seconds is really just an arbitrary threshold. If they wanted a team to take no more than 24 seconds, the would require it to hit the rim by 24 seconds but they don't.

24 seconds was chosen solely in an effort to achieve a certain number of points per game.....that's all.

Sure, it would change the result of a few plays, but it does so in a way that doesn't really matter.

Whether arbitrary or not, it doesn't matter. The NBA doesn't want teams taking more than 24 seconds if they commit a shot clock violation. It's how their rule and subsequent case book plays are written out. They even go so far as to correct the game clock very early in the game. For example, if a team opens the 2nd quarter committing a shot clock violation (with no resets) with 11:34 on the clock, you best believe they'll reset the clock to 11:36.

Those few plays are why the rule change would not be implemented in the NBA.

Side note:

24 seconds was picked by dividing 2880 seconds (number of seconds in a 48 minute game) by 120 shots between the two teams (Danny Biasone, Syracuse Nationals owner figured this to be the "sweet spot" between stall ball and a "wild shootout.")

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Whether arbitrary or not, it doesn't matter. The NBA doesn't want teams taking more than 24 seconds if they commit a shot clock violation. It's how their rule and subsequent case book plays are written out. They even go so far as to correct the game clock very early in the game. For example, if a team opens the 2nd quarter committing a shot clock violation (with no resets) with 11:34 on the clock, you best believe they'll reset the clock to 11:36.

Those few plays are why the rule change would not be implemented in the NBA.

Side note:

24 seconds was picked by dividing 2880 seconds (number of seconds in a 48 minute game) by 120 possessions between the two teams (Danny Biasone, Syracuse Nationals owner figured this to be the "sweet spot" between stall ball and a "wild shootout.")

APG:

Dang, you beat me to it. I am getting old (which MTD, Jr., and Andy keep reminding me). LOL

But one should remember that the FIBA shot clock has not always been 24 seconds; in fact it is a relatively recent change (withing the last 8 years I think). Originally it was 30 seconds and that is why the NCAA Women's shot clock is 30 seconds because the NAGWS Basketball Rules for women's college basketball was based upon FIBA Rules which used a 30 second shot clock.

MTD, Sr.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

None of that really matters.....24 seconds is really just an arbitrary threshold. If they wanted a team to take no more than 24 seconds, the would require it to hit the rim by 24 seconds but they don't.

24 seconds was chosen solely in an effort to achieve a certain number of points per game.....that's all.

Sure, it would change the result of a few plays, but it does so in a way that doesn't really matter.

My research long ago showed that some man way back in the 50s divided the length of a game by the number of possessions in a typical. His result led to the common 24 second shot clock.

[APG]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

My research long ago showed that some man way back in the 50s divided the length of a game by the number of possessions in a typical. His result led to the common 24 second shot clock.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Side note:

24 seconds was picked by dividing 2880 seconds (number of seconds in a 48 minute game) by 120 shots between the two teams (Danny Biasone, Syracuse Nationals owner figured this to be the "sweet spot" between stall ball and a "wild shootout.")

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I should read the rest of the comments before I get all excited.

[JugglingReferee]

The only thing that I don't like about FIBA for young players is that they can't run an offense in 24 seconds. Grade 8 and below I'd like to see 35 seconds. High school: 30 seconds.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

NBA: Shot clock violation. Officials will reset the clock to 3.7 seconds. And now Team B, being rewarded for their good defense, will also be allowed to call a timeout and advance the ball to the 28' mark with a full 3.7 on the clock.

If you could find the case play for this I'd appreciate it. Maybe I missed it but I looked through the NBA rule and case books and from what I can see the shot clock would only be reset once there's a definite change of possession.

How can the shot clock be reset to 3.7 seconds if, when the shot clock expired, the ball was in the air? There's no violation until the ball fails to touch the rim.

[APG]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

If you could find the case play for this I'd appreciate it. Maybe I missed it but I looked through the NBA rule and case books and from what I can see the shot clock would only be reset once there's a definite change of possession.

How can the shot clock be reset to 3.7 seconds if, when the shot clock expired, the ball was in the air? There's no violation until the ball fails to touch the rim.

NBA Case Book (2011-2012)

158. Player A1 scores a field goal with :31.0 remaining on the game clock in the first period. Following this, Player B2 attempts a field goal with one second remaining on the 24-second clock, which does not touch the basket ring. Player A1 secures possession of the ball and immediately calls timeout with: 05.0 on the game clock. What is the procedure regarding the amount of time remaining?

Officials shall direct the clock operator to reset the game clock to read :07.0. When the 24-second clock shows “0” and the field goal attempt fails to touch the basket ring, a 24-second violation has occurred.
RULE 7 - SECTION II - c (2)

159. Team B scores a successful field goal with :27.0 remaining in the fourth period and still trails, 121-120. Team A advances the ball into the frontcourt and with :04.0 on the game clock, Player A1 throws the ball towards the ceiling. Before the ball returns to the floor, both the 24-second clock and the game clock reads zero. What is the ruling?

Officials shall direct the official timer to reset the game clock to :03.0.
RULE 7 - SECTION II - c (2)

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

NBA Case Book (2011-2012)

158. Player A1 scores a field goal with :31.0 remaining on the game clock in the first period. Following this, Player B2 attempts a field goal with one second remaining on the 24-second clock, which does not touch the basket ring. Player A1 secures possession of the ball and immediately calls timeout with: 05.0 on the game clock. What is the procedure regarding the amount of time remaining?

Officials shall direct the clock operator to reset the game clock to read :07.0. When the 24-second clock shows “0” and the field goal attempt fails to touch the basket ring, a 24-second violation has occurred.
RULE 7 - SECTION II - c (2)

159. Team B scores a successful field goal with :27.0 remaining in the fourth period and still trails, 121-120. Team A advances the ball into the frontcourt and with :04.0 on the game clock, Player A1 throws the ball towards the ceiling. Before the ball returns to the floor, both the 24-second clock and the game clock reads zero. What is the ruling?

Officials shall direct the official timer to reset the game clock to :03.0.
RULE 7 - SECTION II - c (2)

Thanks. I was looking in the 24-second clock section as opposed to the game clock section.