What do you do....

Dan_ref · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 11:51am

Close game, second half, A has had a couple or 3 called against them in a row. You're T (or C in 3 whistle) and coach A is standing behind you quietly questioning the recent series of calls. A1 with the ball is well guarded by B1 & B2 along the endline on the other side of the lane in front of the L. A1 manages to split the defenders and as A1 heads into the lane B1 sticks his knee out making contact with A1. No whistle from L. Coach A shouts to you "look at that!". The play is clearly out of your primary.

What do you do?

bob jenkins · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 12:00pm

More information needed:

Did you see the play? (Why?)

Did you judge it to be a foul?

See + Foul: Probably call it. It sounds like partner was straight-lined.

See + No Foul: Explain to coach

Didn't See: (a) Explain to coach what you were looking at; (b) tell coach you miised it because you were busy talking to him, but you'll be sure to get all contact down at the other end when your attention isn't divided (not recommended!)

w_sohl · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 12:14pm

If the call is out of your primary and you see it, give your partner a moment to blow the whistle and make the call, if he/she doesn't make the call you have to call it. There is no place for egos in officiating, call it, get it right and move along.

Dan_ref · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 12:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
More information needed:

Did you see the play? (Why?)

Did you judge it to be a foul?

See + Foul: Probably call it. It sounds like partner was straight-lined.

See + No Foul: Explain to coach

Didn't See: (a) Explain to coach what you were looking at; (b) tell coach you miised it because you were busy talking to him, but you'll be sure to get all contact down at the other end when your attention isn't divided (not recommended!)

You saw the play because it was in your line of sight. You knew the coach saw it even before he said he did.

Foul? Mmmm I dunno...obvious contact but A1 has a decent chance to play through it for a layup. Maybe partner was straight-lined, maybe he held his whistle to give A1 a chance. Hard to say, meanwhile Coach A is breathing down your neck.

(BTW, I like your comment to Coach A

)

cmathews · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 02:01pm

At a camp this year this same type of situation was brought up, not the specifics, but the generalization of fishing in someone elses pond. The D1 guy at the camp said "if ya gotta have it, then by all means go get it" in other words if everyone in the gym, except your partner/s saw it and or it truly has an effect on the game then, yes go get it. In this situation where you say L could have been holding his whistle waiting on the result, and you think maybe he can play through, then this is one that I don't think "we gotta have", I pass on it and use the comments to the coach theory

canuckrefguy · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 05:02pm

Bad foul in the lane has to have a call. Hold the whistle to give your partner a chance, then blow it down. Make it look better by running in about 15-20 feet after you blow so you're closer to the play when you finish making your call.

I remember a final four game last year where there was a fast break, a layup, and a collision. Double Whistle L and T. L emphatically calls blocking foul. T runs in, from beyond the arc, waves it off, stands in the middle of the key and signals TRAVEL instead.

Bottom line: do the right thing.

whistleone · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 06:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Close game, second half, A has had a couple or 3 called against them in a row. You're T (or C in 3 whistle) and coach A is standing behind you quietly questioning the recent series of calls. A1 with the ball is well guarded by B1 & B2 along the endline on the other side of the lane in front of the L. A1 manages to split the defenders and as A1 heads into the lane B1 sticks his knee out making contact with A1. No whistle from L. Coach A shouts to you "look at that!". The play is clearly out of your primary.

What do you do?

If you see the whole play and is has to be called, then call it. You make no mention of actually seeing the play. Maybe there's a reason the L didn't have a call. If it's right in front of the Lead, chances are you shouldn't be looking there anyway. As far as the coach is concerned: "I didn't see it coach. I'm trying to work hard off the ball for you."

When it comes down to it - Do what's right using the information presented to you at the time.

JugglingReferee · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 08:54pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Close game, second half, A has had a couple or 3 called against them in a row. You're T (or C in 3 whistle) and coach A is standing behind you quietly questioning the recent series of calls. A1 with the ball is well guarded by B1 & B2 along the endline on the other side of the lane in front of the L. A1 manages to split the defenders and as A1 heads into the lane B1 sticks his knee out making contact with A1. No whistle from L. Coach A shouts to you "look at that!". The play is clearly out of your primary.

What do you do?

Make the call. Step up.

Mike

Dan_ref · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 10:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by whistleone

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Close game, second half, A has had a couple or 3 called against them in a row. You're T (or C in 3 whistle) and coach A is standing behind you quietly questioning the recent series of calls. A1 with the ball is well guarded by B1 & B2 along the endline on the other side of the lane in front of the L. A1 manages to split the defenders and as A1 heads into the lane B1 sticks his knee out making contact with A1. No whistle from L. Coach A shouts to you "look at that!". The play is clearly out of your primary.

What do you do?

If you see the whole play and is has to be called, then call it. You make no mention of actually seeing the play.

I said the off official saw it in my reply to Bob.

Quote:

Maybe there's a reason the L didn't have a call.

On the other hand you and the coach clearly see what looks like a foul. And the coach is already b1tching that it's not going both ways.

Quote:

If it's right in front of the Lead, chances are you shouldn't be looking there anyway.

Maybe I'm not describing this as well as I would like, but there's no reason for T in 2 man or C in 3 man to NOT see this play. Where else should he be looking?

Quote:

As far as the coach is concerned: "I didn't see it coach. I'm trying to work hard off the ball for you."

"You might be working hard but you just let my man get mugged going to the basket!!!! Getchyadamn head in the game ref!!!"

Quote:

When it comes down to it - Do what's right using the information presented to you at the time.

And doing what's right would be....?

mick · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 10:09pm

Dan,
I'm calling the "block".
mick

KingTripleJump · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 25, 2003, 11:59pm

I'd make the call. If your partner gets upset becaues you called in his area, then he/she has a problem.

This is why in pre-game, I tell my partner(s) that if they clearly see something in my "area" and I don't make the call, then call it! I won't get offended. Now afterwards, I may tell you why I either made or didn't make said call, but the bottom line is that we as a crew are communicating. And coaches like to see that.

canuckrefguy · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 26, 2003, 12:04am

If we're talking 3-person, I don't see how the C "wouldn't see the foul", or "shouldn't be looking there". The call may not be in his primary, but if it happened like Dan described, C probably had a box seat.

In both cases, though, as I interpret Dan's description, make the call. Any partner worth a hoot won't mind, or at least will get over it. I agree with previous poster who says the L was probably straight-lined.

I have to admit, if we're talking 2-person, and I'm way out at the arc, I might be a little more hesitant.