12-13 rule changes

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

You sure?

When reporting I can usually tell if they want to talk to me or not. If they do, then tough call or not, I'll tell them what I saw. They deserve that much.
If not, then I'll stand away & let them have the last word if they want to make comments/statement as opposed to asking what I saw.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tref

When reporting I can usually tell if they want to talk to me or not. If they do, then tough call or not, I'll tell them what I saw. They deserve that much.
If not, then I'll stand away & let them have the last word if they want to make comments/statement as opposed to asking what I saw.

Why do they deserve any explanation? You may want to give it to them, but that does not mean they deserve an explanation. And considering that everyone at the HS level clearly does not do 3 Person mechanics for every game like we pretty much do in my area or state, what do you do when you have no mechanics that makes you available? I get that is you have a good coach and they ask a question and you happened to be there, but it is not our job to give them any explanation as they often do not accept what we say to them anyway.

Peace

[tref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why do they deserve any explanation? You may want to give it to them, but that does not mean they deserve an explanation. And considering that everyone at the HS level clearly does not do 3 Person mechanics for every game like we pretty much do in my area or state, what do you do when you have no mechanics that makes you available? I get that is you have a good coach and they ask a question and you happened to be there, but it is not our job to give them any explanation as they often do not accept what we say to them anyway.

Peace

As with most things in officiating there are no absolutes, always or automatics. When a coach has a resonable question on a play that could've went either way & I'm right there in front of him, I think he deserves to know what we saw.

When I'm not available, I give them the finger... the index finger that is
Thats pretty universal in its meaning.

I disagree, communication with coaches is a HUGE part of our job. Everybody that worked deep into March Madness were excellent communicators with coaches.

Now if they wanna pushback & argue the explanation I give them, its simple, "Oh I'm sorry, did I lead you to believe this was a debate, coach. That's what I saw on the play."
And yes, he can have the last word after that, because I'm walking away.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tref

As with most things in officiating there are no absolutes, always or automatics. When a coach has a resonable question on a play that could've went either way & I'm right there in front of him, I think he deserves to know what we saw.

When I'm not available, I give them the finger... the index finger that is
Thats pretty universal in its meaning.

I disagree, communication with coaches is a HUGE part of our job. Everybody that worked deep into March Madness were excellent communicators with coaches.

Now if they wanna pushback & argue the explanation I give them, its simple, "Oh I'm sorry, did I lead you to believe this was a debate, coach. That's what I saw on the play."
And yes, he can have the last word after that, because I'm walking away.

My point is an explanation is a courtesy. I have looked at this for a long time and still look at it that way today. And usually they only get an explanation when they have been behaving during the most of the game. For example we have gone two quarters and a coach has not said anything, then all of a sudden asks a question when I am standing right next to him. Our explanation ultimately is at the table. Usually much conversation usually turns into a debate (at the HS level). I am not saying to never talk to a coach, but just take issue with the characterization that we owe it to them to tell them something on a tough call. What they need to do is coach their kids and stop worrying about what we are doing or calling. Unless I have missed something, I have never seen a foul called and because of the conversation with a coach the call is taken back and we forget it never happened.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

As has been said, we go table-side on all calls in NCAA-W and it isn't a huge issue. If a coach has a legit question, I/we answer. If they have a question on every call, I say "coach, I'll answer questions but we can't have a rules clinic on every whistle." That generally stops things. Plus the college coaches are told by our supervisors that we won't answer questions on every single play.

I do the same thing in NY girls' H.S. since NCAA-W modified rules are used. There's a bit more talking since H.S. coaches ask more - if not great - questions. The one thing I like about it is it prevents a coach yelling from 50 feet away to find out why I made a certain call. For the most part the conversations are pretty quiet. Those times where the coach starts getting out of hand I just handle it appropriately.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I do the same thing in NY girls' H.S. since NCAA-W modified rules are used. There's a bit more talking since H.S. coaches ask more - if not great - questions. The one thing I like about it is it prevents a coach yelling from 50 feet away to find out why I made a certain call. For the most part the conversations are pretty quiet. Those times where the coach starts getting out of hand I just handle it appropriately.

This is why you cannot compare what we do in HS to college. College coaches and players are a totally different breed. And when you T a coach for stuff they say, they know why. A HS coaches can damn near curse you out and they think they did nothing wrong. And most of all that is why the mechanic, could, should and is different in many cases.

Peace

[Raymond]

I work FED rules and I work NCAA-M rules. My communication with HS coaches is no more better or easier just because we go tableside.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I work FED rules and I work NCAA-M rules. My communication with HS coaches is no more better or easier just because we go tableside.

Same here.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

As has been said, we go table-side on all calls in NCAA-W and it isn't a huge issue. If a coach has a legit question, I/we answer. If they have a question on every call, I say "coach, I'll answer questions but we can't have a rules clinic on every whistle." That generally stops things. Plus the college coaches are told by our supervisors that we won't answer questions on every single play.

I do the same thing in NY girls' H.S. since NCAA-W modified rules are used. There's a bit more talking since H.S. coaches ask more - if not great - questions. The one thing I like about it is it prevents a coach yelling from 50 feet away to find out why I made a certain call. For the most part the conversations are pretty quiet. Those times where the coach starts getting out of hand I just handle it appropriately.

I preferred it as well, for the same reasons, so I hope IAABO goes back. I'd rather see them give it more time, and give the officials who are working 3-whistle more time to work on learning when to communicate and when to turn away. If you're working games with three, it's a good time to learn.

Of course, the games where a coach is more likely to yell 50 feet across the court don't usually have three officials.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The games where a coach is more likely to yell 50 feet across the court don't usually have three officials.

Middle school girls games?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Middle school girls games?

yup

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I preferred it as well, for the same reasons, so I hope IAABO goes back. I'd rather see them give it more time, and give the officials who are working 3-whistle more time to work on learning when to communicate and when to turn away. If you're working games with three, it's a good time to learn.

Of course, the games where a coach is more likely to yell 50 feet across the court don't usually have three officials.

Just a thought but the one reason I can think of for IAABO delaying a return to the table-side mechanic has to do as much with us as the coaches. Some folks in stripes just can't shut up, especially the ones who should get into the book more often. When you combine that with coaches who can't shut up *and* have shaky rules knowledge nothing good can happen.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... I get that is you have a good coach and they ask a question and you happened to be there, but it is not our job to give them any explanation as they often do not accept what we say to them anyway.

Peace

Exactly. Had one of those coaches this weekend who felt his opinion was needed on any call he didn't like. Last interchange had with him:

Coach: Defense can't smack the backboard when the ball is on the rim.
Me: It was a legitimate block attempt.
Coach: I don't care.....(I immediately walked away and couldn't hear the rest of his comment and I made sure not to speak to him again after that)

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Exactly. Had one of those coaches this weekend who felt his opinion was needed on any call he didn't like. Last interchange had with him:

Coach: Defense can't smack the backboard when the ball is on the rim.
Me: It was a legitimate block attempt.
Coach: I don't care.....(I immediately walked away and couldn't hear the rest of his comment and I made sure not to speak to him again after that)

Summer coaches are too funny!

I had one over the weekend say the top of the backboard is out. Much like yourself, when the comment is totally incorrect my tolerance level drops a bit.
"There are 6 sides to a backboard, only 1 is out, coach."
I saw the addition being done in his head trying to count the sides... 3-4 trips later.

By the way, these arent the plays or coaches I feel deserve an explanation on.
Its legit concerns, by legit coaches on questionable plays that I'm speaking of.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

Summer coaches are too funny!

Yesterday, shot, rebound, shot, rebound, shot, rebound....

The entire defensive bench (players & coaches) is yelling "3-seconds, 3-seconds....".

Foul (partner called it).

I'm by the bench and turn to them and say...."that sounds good except that the count starts over after every shot" (didn't get into the actual specifics of when it really starts and stops).

They all look at each other and say "Oh, oops" and chuckle.....a half dozen people will now have one less thing to be goofy over.